The fact that people like you are finding "social issues to be a joke" is kinda a sign of how secretly conservative and backwards a bunch of people on the site are.
Like that person who started the "Is ATRL too liberal now" or something like that.
White gay guys think they have the power to declare themselves minority enough that they can make judgments about such social issues, but it doesn't change the fact that they're still white + male + cisgender + probably in a household with enough money that they have regular access to the Internet.
At a glance, y'all still look like the dominant 'class' in society. And I mean "y'all" to mean the majority of this site's users.
No, it's because a gay, progressive, biracial black and latino "person like me" who once identified as feminist finds those of you who thrive on tumblr/message boards to be going overboard and inadvertently making a mockery of legitimate social causes. It's the same as Taylor Swift calling out Nicki Minaj's "feminism", presumably because calling other women out isn't allowed and is somehow anti-feminist. It's making a joke out of legitimate social issues. If people call Hillary out on her perceived dishonesty and flip-slopping, (nonsense) scandals etc, and you immediately jump to "misogyny" without a reasonable amount of proof, yes, you are weakening your cause. Making it look like a joke. Period.
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Originally posted by fridayteenage
How could I disagree with it when I was the one who brought it up in the first place?
This place with its weird logic and clapback fails.
Again, you still have to give some proof to support the idea that the perception re: any other public figures would be so radically different, that a site would be PREDISPOSED (which you've agreed with) to SUPPORTING women in one, yet PREDISPOSED to OPPOSING women in the other. I'm not even saying I know for a fact this isn't true, I'm literally all ears. Have their been posts where people say they're doubtful of her leadership abilities because she's a woman? This would support your claim. Otherwise, it is unsupported, and runs contrary to every other bit of evidence we have of the general populace of ATRL regarding women (yass queen, everyone female is a "queen" unless they somehow "oppose" your female fave, men are ignored unless they're hot, etc).
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Anyway, entertainment is different from politics.
Entertainment is for fun and merriment.
Politics is about leadership in society and affecting/changing the issues facing the people and the environment we live in.
In the olden days, entertainers were often actually at the bottom of the totem pole because they didn't provide any goods or services to actually help the running of society - they were frivolous and unnecessary, existing only for the pleasure of the rich who could afford to be wasteful and provide for the upkeep of these luxuries.
Now they're admired because they get so much money, but the latter is still kinda true.
I 100% agree with this. I know musicians =/= writers =/= politicians =/= teachers, nurses etc. I'm asking for proof on ATRL (or among a sizable portion of gays in general) that supports the idea you're proposed, that they'll disproportionately STAN for one group, yet be wildly misogynistic against another group.
I don't like Hillary and would never vote for her (never did, never will) but omg this site is so fickle, damn.
A month ago yall couldn't wait for "Kween Hillary" to step into the white house and now yall are Bernie supporters
1. I've referred to propaganda because it's clear that most people who don't like her have fallen for the right-wing hate campaign. There are people who don't like her for valid reasons and I'll acknowledge that. But I'll also acknowledge when the hater only dislikes her for cheap, flimsy reasons.
2. Repo's post was about how ATRL is actually sexist towards men and that misogyny on here is made up. Hillary was mentioned in one line. Again, all I said was "ATRL is misogynistic". You read too much into it, and again, you seem like you're becoming irrational.
1. I could easily turn that around on you and say the reason you like her is because you buy into her propaganda while ignoring a lot of shady, dishonest dealings and mysterious opinion changes that coincide with popular opinion and that Hillary has yet to explain. You need to give more detailed defenses
2. Because it was said the entire reason these gays turned on Hillary was due to misogyny when, if anything, the site is misandrist. If it's so misogynistic, PLEASE provide proof. And no, people dragging a female artist they don't like isn't proof. They do that even more to men in general As for bringing in a bunch of forms of entertainment... if ATRL is sexist in favor of woman and against men in fictional works of TV, movies, videogames, and books, with entertainment celebrities, with pop stars, and with just about everything else... why is Politics the one place they'd refuse to vote for a woman on account of being a woman? (and as I said, lots of ATRLers have said KWEEN HILLARY purely because she's a girl) It's theoretically possible, but you need to actual provide some proof beyond "well so and so says so and I agree!"
ATRL is also notorious OFF site for being misandrist too like I really don't see how you can argue that this site is misogynistic with zero proof.
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Originally posted by Damien M
I don't like Hillary and would never vote for her (never did, never will) but omg this site is so fickle, damn.
A month ago yall couldn't wait for "Kween Hillary" to step into the white house and now yall are Bernie supporters
I was never on Team Hillary and had always been suspicious due to charges of corruption and the fact she seemed to pander. The more time goes on, the more obvious these charges become and the less I like her. I've also yet to come out in complete support of any presidential candidate and see pros and cons to almost all of the major ones so far
1. I could easily turn that around on you and say the reason you like her is because you buy into her propaganda while ignoring a lot of shady, dishonest dealings and mysterious opinion changes that coincide with popular opinion and that Hillary has yet to explain. You need to give more detailed defenses
2. Because it was said the entire reason these gays turned on Hillary was due to misogyny when, if anything, the site is misandrist. If it's so misogynistic, PLEASE provide proof. And no, people dragging a female artist they don't like isn't proof. They do that even more to men in general As for bringing in a bunch of forms of entertainment... if ATRL is sexist in favor of woman and against men in fictional works of TV, movies, videogames, and books, with entertainment celebrities, with pop stars, and with just about everything else... why is Politics the one place they'd refuse to vote for a woman on account of being a woman? (and as I said, lots of ATRLers have said KWEEN HILLARY purely because she's a girl)
ATRL is also notorious OFF site for being misandrist too like I really don't see how you can argue that this site is misogynistic with zero proof.
I was never on Team Hillary and had always been suspicious due to charges of corruption and the fact she seemed to pander. The more time goes on, the more obvious these charges become and the less I like her. I've also yet to come out in complete support of any presidential candidate and see pros and cons to almost all of the major ones so far
BTW, I do agree with your point about most ppl on this site hating anything related to men (Most gay Hillary supporters on here were on her side #1 bc she was female. Nothing else).
Keyword = most
1. I could easily turn that around on you and say the reason you like her is because you buy into her propaganda while ignoring a lot of shady, dishonest dealings and mysterious opinion changes that coincide with popular opinion and that Hillary has yet to explain. You need to give more detailed defenses
You could turn that on me, but you'd be incorrect. I've given extremely detailed defenses. I've literally stated 20x over to you that she has been fighting for gay rights since the 90's, and just wasn't a fan of the term marriage. I've also explained why she literally couldn't come out in support of gay 'marriage' (because she was still fighting for their rights) during her time as Secretary of State, which explains why she waited until 2013. So again, when you use 'mysterious opinion change' rhetoric, it seems like you're falling for propaganda and hate campaigns planted by the right wing and the uber-left. Considering 90% of coverage on Hillary these days is about her being dishonest and untrustworthy, what propaganda would I be falling for? I've never said Hillary was perfect.
BTW, I do agree with your point about most ppl on this site hating anything related to men (Most gay Hillary supporters on here supported her #1 bc she was female. Nothing else).
Keyword = most
Oh yeah, obviously most. I've seen ones who aren't. I mean, I already know I wouldn't qualify. And while I don't have everyoen sexism/lack of sexism memorized, I really do know I've seen others who don't qualify either (That said,I do have an admitted bias to preferring female popstar music, but I don't know a lot of men who make music like Xtina or Britney. I also tend to prefer female voices. I don't dislike male singers at all)
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Originally posted by Giselle
You could turn that on me, but you'd be incorrect. I've given extremely detailed defenses. I've literally stated 20x over to you that she has been fighting for gay rights since the 90's, and just wasn't a fan of the term marriage. I've also explained why she literally couldn't come out in support of gay 'marriage' (because she was still fighting for their rights) during her time as Secretary of State, which explains why she waited until 2013. So again, when you use 'mysterious opinion change' rhetoric, it seems like you're falling for propaganda. Considering 90% of coverage on Hillary these days is about her being dishonest and untrustworthy, what propaganda would I be falling for? I've never said Hillary was perfect.
Most of the media coverage I see for Hillary is trying to downplay her many, many, many charges of corruption as much as they possibly can (which is what concerns me more than the gay marriage thing) I did miss your thing about how her championing for gay rights means she somehow can't support gay marriage until popular opinion says it's okay, but that seems kinda flimsy to me
Some gays seem to take the fact that she wasn't for gay marriage at one point very personally. However there is a lot of distrust of Clinton in the GP in general.
Bernie is more appealing to the young and the gays.
It's interesting that major celebrity females figures are supporting her though (Bey , Mariah Carey, Ellen, Kim K. etc.).
It's interesting that major celebrity females figures are supporting her though (Bey , Mariah Carey, Ellen, Kim K. etc.).
I honestly feel like some of it is a feminism thing so we can finally have a female president... which kinda turns a lot of that campaigning into tokenism which is actually very anti-feminist. It's more about meeting the quota than empowering a strong female
I honestly feel like some of it is a feminism thing so we can finally have a female president... which kinda turns a lot of that campaigning into tokenism which is actually very anti-feminist. It's more about meeting the quota than empowering a strong female
Yeah that's what I dislike about their support, even if they really mean it. Ellen admitting that she only see Hillary and paid Bernie dust was a bit of a low-blow.
Yeah that's what I dislike about their support, even if they really mean it. Ellen admitting that she only see Hillary and paid Bernie dust was a bit of a low-blow.
Well, it bugs me on behalf of the represented group too. It's like when the woman who directed Selma didn't get an Oscar nom. The media was making it WAY MORE about how we didn't have our first black female director nomination than... whether or not this woman was actually snubbed. It didn't matter if her directing was ACTUALLY good, just that the quota wasn't finally fulfilled. It sets these groups back by so much by literally reducing the person into being a token/footnote
Then yeah, the discrimination it causes to the rest of the people up against the person being turned into a token bugs me too for very obvious reasons.
Yeah that's what I dislike about their support, even if they really mean it. Ellen admitting that she only see Hillary and paid Bernie dust was a bit of a low-blow.
She wasn't saying that Hillary was literally the only candidate that she sees. It was more of a sentimental thing.
Some gays seem to take the fact that she wasn't for gay marriage at one point very personally. However there is a lot of distrust of Clinton in the GP in general.
Bernie is more appealing to the young and the gays.
It's interesting that major celebrity females figures are supporting her though (Bey , Mariah Carey, Ellen, Kim K. etc.).
In fairness, a lot of Bernie's appeal is him being "for the people" (ie: middle class, lower middle class, poor), challenging and increasing taxes on the rich and corporations, etc. It makes perfect sense that liberal-minded multimillionaires would be for more "establishment" democrats. Even if Hillary dropped out tomorrow, those celebs would probably turn their support to Biden or something.
As much as I love the former, Bey and Kim K likely never knew struggle or working for minimum wage, and with Mariah it's been long enough that she probably forgot. I wouldn't expect them to align with a candidate whose MAIN focus (based on several of his speeches) is reforming the economy so that the rich and especially corporations pay more and can't abuse loopholes, to raise the quality of life for the lower classes. And also, election/campaign finance reform. If anything these celebs are "socially liberal, economically ", their lives literally won't change at all if the pres is Clinton, Biden, Trump, Bush, etc.
Also, the Clintons have been celebrities and in the limelight for decades. They probably have plenty of celebrity friends, probably Ellen who has interviewed and probably had dinner with both of them for years, Mariah who IIRC sang for Bill in 1996ish and probably met/is friendly with both, etc. If my friend was running for prez 20 years from now and I was financially well-off enough that no candidate made a difference to me, I can't say I wouldn't vote for them either.
The gender thing plays a part, but I think even if HC was a man, the listed celebs still wouldn't really support Bernie, and won't do so unless he somehow wins the primary and it's him vs a Repug.
As for bringing in a bunch of forms of entertainment... if ATRL is sexist in favor of woman and against men in fictional works of TV, movies, videogames, and books, with entertainment celebrities, with pop stars, and with just about everything else... why is Politics the one place they'd refuse to vote for a woman on account of being a woman? (and as I said, lots of ATRLers have said KWEEN HILLARY purely because she's a girl) It's theoretically possible, but you need to actual provide some proof beyond "well so and so says so and I agree!"
, Mariah Carey, Ellen, Kim K. etc.).
", their lives literally won't change at all if the pres is Clinton, Biden, Trump, Bush, etc.