"Gaga is simply not a good songwriter" said an ATRL member

In the meantime:

Hey, she can craft a catchy song with a cool hook. No one said otherwise.

But compare gaga's songs to some of the great songwriters throughout history, and for the purposes of this thread Florence, and you see a stark difference. All Imo of course, but who the two are as artists and songwriters are completely opposite

Who are those greatest songwriters throughout history ?

Gaga is an amazing writer. No one is saying that she hasn't written some stupid lyrics. But she wrote those lyrics, because she wanted it to be that way.

The edge of glory, You and I, Bad Romance, Bloody Mary arejust some of her masterpieces and are definitely some of the best songs of ALL time. You are simply not into Gaga which is cool, but some of your comments are just not true.

There's no need to be this defensive, Jesus

I kinda agree with him, Florence her lyrics are all personal poetry, her melodies are insanely catchy and the metaphors are out of this world.

The way she combines personal experiences + influences from literature into a great coherent song is amazing

Gaga has a lot of highs and a lot of lows, Florence doesn't, she doesn't have a song as corny as Hair/Government H.... That's the difference. Just my opinion though.
I'd say Florence is like a 8/10, while Gaga is a 6/10 lyrics-wise. Again this is only my opinion, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I mean you yourself can look up a list of those who are consistently regarded as the most influential and best songwriters of all time.

You're defending her stupid lyrics by saying "she wanted them that way"? That she wanted them to be stupid? Mmmm...ok!

Likewise, you're saying songs like TEOG and YAI are some of the best songs of ALL time? that's biased and borderline delusional. Now I'm not saying any of Florence's are the "best of all time" either, but songs like TEOG and YAI? I'm not even going to bother picking out some of the horrendous lyrics in them. Interestingly, you're right, they are some of her best songs.

No, I genuinely think Gaga thought "Garden panty" was a really smart lyric line.

And how am I biased and borderline delusional ? I didn't know there was a standard for songwriting, I thought music was subjective.

Music is subjective, yes, but only to a certain point. For instance, if someone thought a gaga song or a Selena Gomez song were better than a renowned song like hey Jude by the Beatles or Landslide by Stevie Nicks, you know they're wrong, there's simply no ambiguity as to who is a better songwriter.

Gaga is a really fun popstar with crazy, eccentric ideas that sometimes produce a really good hit (PF JD BR, for example), but I personally (and many others would agree) that she is not as talented in songwriting as her fans believe, and her music is not as revolutionary as her fans believe either.

But isn't that any fangroup though? We inflate our fave's abilities and talents, because we are biased towards our own faves

not to discredit florence in the slightest, but why do i get the feeling that a few people saying ceremonials are just viewing music from a rockist perspective

Rockist? I think I get what you're saying, but can you clarify?

Ceremonials is like one of the best album ever.

BTW is cute though.

Do you honestly believe that?

Gaga doesnt make art pop, nor avant garde music contrary to what she/her fans like to claim. Art pop, and art rock and avant garde for that matter, are very different from what Gaga offered. Her Artpop album could mean anything, but the music known as art pop, which is bringing art into pop, (not by wearing a Mona Lisa t-shirt, but by using specific elements of classical music, especially neoclassicism and avant garde, for example by putting harmonic melodies in a juxtaposition with unconventional rhythmic structures etc.), has very little to do with it.

This, completely.

I don't even know how to respond to that.



I can't even handle this thread or these results. Born This Way singlehandedly produced a half dozen of the worst pop songs of the decade thus far.

Nothing on Ceremonials comes close to being as bad as Gaga's lows.

ATRL's popism at its finest.

Hard to say. Both have some great songs, but both have some insufferable trash on them too. These are two of my faves, and while it's a weird comparison, I think I'm gonna go with BTW. It had higher replay value for me and sometimes I feel like I have to be in a certain mood to enjoy Ceremonials. I am more excited about HBHBHB than I ever was about ARTPOP though.

I completely agree. The "worst" of Ceremonials (hard to call anything on that album the "worst" tbh) is still so significantly better than anything on BTW, imo. Lyrically, they are in different leagues. That's not even debatable. And production-wise, I'm biased, because I prefer organic music with real instruments over electronic, just my personal taste though!

I'm truly surprised Ceremonials is so close to BTW on the poll though, considering the ratio of gaga to Florence fans on this site is like 20:1 though, of course, there are some people who are fans of both, but the point is there are so few FATM stans here haha

Which songs on Ceremonials are "insufferable trash" to you?

^^ was also wondering

on an album of such quality, of course a song has to be chosen as "the worst." there's no BAD song on it; to say otherwise is plain ludicrous. imo, the song that is the "worst" on it is simply the good song among an album of great--if not amazing songs. that song, for me, is Seven Devils (including just the 12 on the standard). it's a really good song, imo, but it stands out the least and it's not phenomenal like some of the others.