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ATRL: How do you feel about patriotism?
Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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How do you feel about patriotism?
It's kinda hard to explain, but I'm not just talking about loving your country in general, I'm referring to people who take it to like the Pop Music Stan level here in America and such.
The ones who will have a meltdown if you refuse to say the American Pledge for whatever reason.
The ones who will have a meltdown if you're not bowing down and agreeing with everything regarding military and war.
I was thinking about it because this thread where some college students did a protest -- they stepped on the American Flag and ruined it as a message they're against the recurring racism, cop brutality, etc. Then a white woman came, took their flag and refused to give it back because "it was American property, and disrespectful to the country" and made a huge scene and got arrested because she was a Veteran.
The video had comments like this:
Personally, I'm not trying to offend anyone or come as off non-caring, but I personally never see the entire deal in this patriotism. I think it's backwards, and American brainwashing that it's an honor to go out and go to war and 'serve your country'. I'm not saying I'm unthankful for it, because ofcourse, I'm happy I live in a safe place, but the whole feel that we need to bow down, 'how dare we not praise it', and always have American spirit is so unnecessary.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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I'm for it, as long as doesn't reach extremist levels.
I do think ruining a flag is disrespectful.
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Member Since: 9/13/2009
Posts: 22,181
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I like American Oxygen, Party in the USA and Firework so I'm quite patriotic I think
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Member Since: 5/7/2012
Posts: 41,067
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I'm American so USA USA
no but seriously I think it's nice to have pride in your country but when people take it to the extreme and get personally offended when someone says or does something not in line with their patriotic way of thinking then it's too much, like simmer down honeybuns.
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
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actually, nationalism does have some positive effects on a country, but it can also lead to really bad things. the rise of nationalism is really a big motivator for wars and it makes people act really stupid. and i feel like american nationalism is really artificial and people only like america because other people tell them to, not because the country really did anything. i don't think america is that amazing. i don't think it's bad, either. it's just another first world country that's better than some first world countries and worse than others.
i think a lot of it is just people being given biased history and thinking america is better than it actually is and continuing to receive bias from other places that america is still doing better things for the world right now than it actually is. so i think getting so freaked out over something like they do is really dumb.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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It has its merits and its downfalls. Excessive patriotism that leads to nationalism is usually toxic and not good for anyone. Typically leads to wars. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your country but some people take it way too far. A symbol is a symbol (for example, the flag). It is not better than an individual but other people may see it that way. 
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guernica
I'm American so USA USA
no but seriously I think it's nice to have pride in your country but when people take it to the extreme and get personally offended when someone says or does something not in line with their patriotic way of thinking then it's too much, like simmer down honeybuns.
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Like what annoys me is when some get offended and make a scene and it literally effects NOBODY or is going against anything.
For example, some teachers will straight up have a meltdown if a student refuses to stand for the pledge (as even seen on the news multiple times) when it's a LAW you do not have to. If me sitting down 1 day isn't hurting you, offensive, or even protesting then why are you so mad?
Like if I've been doing it every day for over a decade, and just do not feel like doing it 1 day you will deal. Clearly it's not that deep. 
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Member Since: 5/7/2012
Posts: 41,067
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Quote:
Originally posted by iHype.
Like what annoys me is when some get offended and make a scene and it literally effects NOBODY or is going against anything.
For example, some teachers will straight up have a meltdown if a student refuses to stand for the pledge (as even seen on the news multiple times) when it's a LAW you do not have to. If me sitting down 1 day isn't hurting you, offensive, or even protesting then why are you so mad?
Like if I've been doing it every day for over a decade, and just do not feel like doing it 1 day you will deal. Clearly it's not that deep. |
dd one time in school I was walking in the halls during the pledge of allegiance because I had arrived late, and so I kept on walking to get to my classroom and a teacher stopped me and told me I was being disrespectful and should have stopped by a classroom with an open door and stood in the doorway with my hand on my heart until the pledge was over and then kept going to my classroom
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 2,096
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If it is okay for people to ruin the flag then it should be reasonable to assume there will be people that want to protect it.
Why would you choose one side over the other?
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chucko
If it is okay for people to ruin the flag then it should be reasonable to assume there will be people that want to protect it.
Why would you choose one side over the other?
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If it is their flag they bought, it's their property. If they want to ruin it, then that is them, because they own it.
You shouldn't ever have the right to take what someone owns out their hands, and say what they will do with it.
It's not choosing a side, it's someone shouldn't take what belongs to someone else.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,721
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guernica
dd one time in school I was walking in the halls during the pledge of allegiance because I had arrived late, and so I kept on walking to get to my classroom and a teacher stopped me and told me I was being disrespectful and should have stopped by a classroom with an open door and stood in the doorway with my hand on my heart until the pledge was over and then kept going to my classroom |
Wait, y'all actually do a pledge of allegiance every morning? Scary  North Korea teas
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Member Since: 5/7/2012
Posts: 41,067
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Quote:
Originally posted by beautiful player
Wait, y'all actually do a pledge of allegiance every morning? Scary North Korea teas |
Yes and we would not only have to stand for it but my school would make us put our hand on our heart during it and if we didn't the teacher would yell at us
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Quote:
Originally posted by beautiful player
Wait, y'all actually do a pledge of allegiance every morning? Scary North Korea teas |
I never used to think about it but it really is disturbing ngl. You'd get rude looks for not doing it either.. but I was also raised post 9/11 where Nationalism was at an all time high and if you didn't comply with the government you were judged because terrorists.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by beautiful player
Wait, y'all actually do a pledge of allegiance every morning? Scary North Korea teas |
Yes. It's not actually enforceable by law after a controversial case in the 90's where a girl refused, got suspended I believed, and went the family went to Court over it.
But they make it like be done in psuedo way, to if you don't do it, you're made out to be the bad one and disrespecting the country, even though it's completely optional.
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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I don't like patriotism.
And regarding the flag stuff. I'm fairly sure a person's right to destroy/ burn a flag is protected by the first amendment (freedom of expression). It's considered very unpatriotic to even let a flag touch the ground, so people do get up in arms over stuff like that. Also, I think I've read that it's against some sort of code of conduct of something to wear clothing with flag prints on it, but don't try to tell patriotic people that.
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 2,096
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Quote:
Originally posted by iHype.
If it is their flag they bought, it's their property. If they want to ruin it, then that is them, because they own it.
You shouldn't ever have the right to take what someone owns out their hands, and say what they will do with it.
It's not choosing a side, it's someone shouldn't take what belongs to someone else. |
It wasn't in their hands it was on the street and they were stomping on it, basically I could argue no one was in possession of the flag at all, I don't know the whole story and did the people stomping on it have a receipt for the flag? Did anyone actually prove they owned it?
I recognize their rights to act like idiots and stomp on the flag in protest of things unrelated to it but I still think it is a vile act done to provoke people around them.
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Member Since: 9/3/2011
Posts: 22,014
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chucko
I recognize their rights to act like idiots and stomp on the flag in protest of things unrelated to it but I still think it is a vile act done to provoke people around them.
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Yeah yup exactly.
I'm not patriotic at all but it's so ****ing stupid and disrespectful to walk on the flag of your own country... especially when what they're protesting isn't related at all. What they're protesting is valid but the approach they're taking is immature and is overshadowing the message they're trying to send. Shock value does not create change.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chucko
It wasn't in their hands it was on the street and they were stomping on it, basically I could argue no one was in possession of the flag at all, I don't know the whole story and did the people stomping on it have a receipt for the flag? Did anyone actually prove they owned it?
I recognize their rights to act like idiots and stomp on the flag in protest of things unrelated to it but I still think it is a vile act done to provoke people around them.
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Yes it was known it was in their possession, or else she wouldn't have been arrested for taking it and refusing to give it back.
It doesn't matter if it wasn't in their hands. If I take my phone, throw in on the ground and want to break it, you do not have a right to take it from me and refuse to let me do what I want with it if I own it. Provoke or not, it is their right as you said. She's a grown ass woman, she should know how to not be provoked and walk away from situations. If I go up to someone and beat their ass, I cannot say they were provoking me as an excuse to not be arrested.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 40,803
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It's not good if it's too extreme. Nothing wrong with a little pride. Love and be proud of the place that raised you 
I don't like how people get offended over the slightest things though. So what if a flag is burned? It's material and there are plenty more 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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I play Firework and Made in the USA every 4th of July and eat burgers and watermelon all year. I think I've done my part
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