As you girls might now, Rome vs Carthage was the USA vs URSS of the ancient times. Two very different countries with different values fought for many years in three wars.



At the end, Rome won, creating the basis for today's society. But what if Carthage had won? How would have the world evolved? Would Africa be the center of the world today? Would society be based on trade rather than on production? Discuss this iconic possibility

Well, assuming that Africa would be the center of modern civilization is still faulty, given that Europe really isn't anymore today. Another thing to note is their presence in Spain - Europe could very well have remained the site of the Renaissance and other major movements in history and philosophy. Society would have naturally progressed in much the same overall way (referencing the trade v. production question). It's cute to ponder these types of questions, but there's too many of them to really be practical - I mean, the same could be asked of World War II, and with more immediate and significant implications.

I also don't think there was ever a real threat of Carthage winning - I realize the military power that they were at the time, and I know they were innovative and progressive, but I feel that a Roman victory was inevitable.

mmmh no. First of all, we would all speak a different language. Latin would have ceased and we would all speak something like arabic or jewish. Then, likely Christianity would have not existed, leading to a completely different world. Europe would have been ravaged by barbarians while Africa would have been the focus of civilization with Carthage and Egypt.

MaRy, sis

"speak something like Jewish"

All I know is Gaga would never have happened, and I don't want to live in a world without ha.

What if the Vandales had won against Byzans, then Africa would belongs to Germany, today.

What if the Reconquista never happened? Now that's a good question. ;

I will take Hebrew for 200 Alex.

Or Yiddish which is mostly what I hear from the Jewish people around here when they swap out from English.

Wut?

You mean in the war of Justinian? The Vandals would have lost to the Arabs and be utterly destroyed a few years later

Nothing is as pivotal to our society as the punic wars, a war between civilizations. Once the Roman empire was established it did not matter because the foundation of our society were laid

But what of an earlier war such as the Greco-Persian war? Greece was the foundation for Rome, but what if Persia conquered Greece before Rome was even a thought?

Um, why are you assuming that all social developments since then necessarily rely upon the controlling government? Culture and society aren't that black and white and certainly don't all conform entirely to one uniform picture across huge empires. You honestly can't "mmmh no" anything I said.

Things would be different and we would see different influences, but a lot of history post-Carthage was natural progression that still would have happened. It might not be the same people, the same empires and nations, or even the same times, but it's not like we wouldn't still live in a structured human society with the same ideas roaming around.

Yes that's another pivotal moment

But when Persia fought Greece Rome had already been influenced by Greece for centuries so it might have gone the same way.

I mean, this is probably the most hypothetical kind of discussion you can have, and there are invariably going to be a lot of different opinions that for the most part have the same merit as the next.

I don't think so. The Renaissance happened because of a new found inquiry in the world and new lands, also because of Greco-Roman influences, and the Catholic Church.

Had Carthage conquered Rome the Renaissance would have never happened but none of things would not exist. The Carthaginians were not into a culture of the arts like the Romans and Greeks were, they had a society that was unsustainable, and Christianity may not be as large as it is now, which would alone alter human history for better and worse.

but it's clear that no chirstianity and no latin, that's already 2 huge differences. For all we know the USA could be like Iraq in this hypothetical world

mmmm both of those are actually very arguable, though. I don't know a ton about Carthage society and law (and law enforcement), but I know that Rome at least didn't really try to stop people from practicing their own cultures and speaking their own languages - in the hypothetical timeline in which Carthage is victorious, who's to say that relatively similar events wouldn't have taken place or that there wouldn't be other power struggles that shifted the dynamic back to Italy and Europe or otherwise played out in such a way that essentially propagates a parallel society to ours?

Carthage and Rome were radically different. While both were military focused, Carthage did not care for art, literature, or poetry. They even killed their babies. Rome was like a heaven in many ways when compared to Carthage. And lets not forget Greek influence. Without Greek influence, the Western world would be different.

There isn't much to it. And many of those Greeks works would be lost (they were before but it was actually the Muslims who preserved them).

sis where are you getting these lies? who told you that Carthage did not care for arts??? Just because it lost and was destroyed does not mean anything, if it had won we would say the same about Rome. Carthage was less violent than Rome, Rome would go to war with whoever while Carthage was all about trade and money. The were able to navigate from Britain to Senegal it appears, they could have reached the Americas way earlier

And now that the debate has shifted away from my Anything Could Happen mantra, I'm going to take the opportunity to duck out and observe.