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News: LBGT schools to open in USA & England
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
This is a great idea. Building privilege & creating community.
And to the know it alls already in here: segregation is something you're forced into. CHOOSING to be apart of an all-gay whatever is not segregation (wtf)
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Hmmm that's actually true. Change what I said to "electively separating" then, because I still think this is stupid. One of the best ways for young people to accept homosexuality is for their friends or people they know to come out. If straight guys never meet/know gay people in high school, then they're possibly only going to be more homophobic as adults, just through a lack of knowing any gay people. My old flatmate is the most masculine gay guy I've ever met, he's kind of bogan and all of his friends seemed like they would be the most homophobic people in the world, yet they weren't, because they'd gotten to know him, love him and see him as their friend before he came out. Admittedly, he's not the sort of person who would have gone to one of these schools, because it would have meant coming out at the age of like 13.
We actually do have a school similar to this in Sydney. It's not an LGBT school, but it's a school for kids who've been bullied and a significant portion of students there just happen to be gay considering mental illness affects a lot of LGBT teens. My little cousin's gay and she goes there. She has green hair (or she did last time I checked, it's constantly changing) and they don't wear a uniform, which is really uncommon in Australia.
I guess in that sense, it's a good idea. But I don't think it's practical for regular gay kids who aren't affected by mental illness. And when I say it's not practical, I mean it's not like that in the real world. When you go out into the real world, you're not going to interact with gays only and have only gay friends and work with only gay people. High school should be about preparing people for the real world. And as for religious schools that separate students based on religion, I also think those are stupid. Probably because I'm an anti-theist who thinks religion itself is stupid. I went to a Catholic school and no one I knew believed in God. We all think it was because we studied the Bible and were taught about all the different religions. As Christopher Hitchens said, the best way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible.
But yeah, I think religious schools, all-gender schools, all-sexuality schools, all-race schools, etc. are a bad idea. I think a lot of Islamophobia would exist in Christian and Jewish schools. I think a lot of anti-Semitism would exist in Islamic schools. I think a lot of misogyny would exist in all boys schools. I think a lot of racism would exist in non-multicultural schools, or schools in countries where everyone is the same race. I think a lot of homophobia would be perpetuated by the fact that there were no gay kids around, with their brave friends there to defend them. I was getting called a ****** and a poof in Business Studies once, and they were getting my name wrong, and my friend Lexy (who had dated one of the guys) turned around and said to him "if you're going to call him a ******, at least get his name right, and even if he is, at least his dick is probably bigger than 8cm" and everyone went "OHHHHHH!!!!" It was iconic, tbh.
I just think the solution to the bullying problem isn't to victimise kids and put them in a school with other victims. It's to make those doing the bullying realise that what they're doing is cruel, and to encourage those who witness bullying to stand up for what's right and say "you're being a dick, stop it." In addition to that, more policies need to be put in place to protect minority teens, whether it's based on their sexuality, race, religion, gender, whatever. High schools need to take discrimination as seriously as workplaces do.
This idea just seems like a way for gay introverts to make friends, but the truth of the matter is, sometimes you've got to put yourself out there in the world to make friends. And I think these would be rare. Really rare. I don't think 10% of people are gay. I think that's something they just tell young gay people to help them accept their sexualities. I live in one of the gay capitals of the world and in 2 weeks time we have gay pride. There's gonna be an after-party with like 20,000 shirtless guys running around, heyy-ayyy and the city has a population of like 5 million people. Obviously not all gay people are out/into that sort of partying, but still, it's not 10% in my opinion. Nowhere near that. I don't think they'd get enough students to facilitate these. There'd be like a few in London, New York and L.A. and parents from interstate wouldn't pay for their kids to board there. They'd be tiny little schools.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/4/2014
Posts: 4,756
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
It'd be like saying a gay bar is segregated and unequal so we should all just ditch them and go to crappy straight bars (and pay for diluted bottom shelf vodka drinks ew)
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Schools should have nothing to do with sexual orientation
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Personally, I think there's a place for schools like this.
While I agree with the sentiments that segregation is not the answer and tolerance and acceptance can only be achieved through experiences with those who are different from you, we also need to consider the perspective of the LGBT students in this situation.
Reading what I just read, it's clear that the current system is failing some LGBT. These schools are opening to try combat these problems because the current system is not working for a number of LGBT students. So firstly something needs a change in that regard. However the issue with me lies with when LGBT students suffer educationally as a result of this discrimination. From what I read, this is what these kinds of schools are designed to combat.
LGBT students are still open to the usual high school system, and I'm sure most will still opt for it (which is a good thing). But for those few who, as a result of emotional or physical abuse because of their sexuality are struggling to cope in a typical high school environment which is currently failing them; this alternative pathway is there and available to them to ensure the ignorance of others doesn't affect their academic outcomes. It's all well and good to say that increased exposure increases tolerance (as it does), but at the same time I feel that such a measure shouldn't compromise the academic outcomes of LGBT students.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 23,375
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheRoofInhabitant
Schools should have nothing to do with sexual orientation
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It shouldn't but that's not the world we're living in, there's schools for at risk kids, advance kids, religious schools, all girls and boys schools and schools for pregnant teens.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/4/2014
Posts: 4,756
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy Gills
It shouldn't but that's not the world we're living in, there's schools for at risk kids, advance kids, religious schools, all girls and boys schools and schools for pregnant teens.
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Like Rihinvention said all of those are wrong, don't prepare the kids to live in the real world, and help develop prejudices and discrimination. So, just because those exist doesn't mean we need others of that kind.
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
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I can't quote what Rihinvention said because he wrote a f*cking essay but he makes a lot of good points.
The way people get over homophobia is actually meeting and having gay friends. Separating people is never a good idea. If there needs to be a "safe haven" then fine, create LGBT clubs. But I think instead of hiding from the problem its better to educate ignorant people and offer help to LGBT students to cope. Similar to how we have Black & Women studies classes there needs to be more education about LGBT culture and discrimination they face
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 23,375
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheRoofInhabitant
Like Rihinvention said all of those are wrong, don't prepare the kids to live in the real world, and help develop prejudices and discrimination. So, just because those exist doesn't mean we need others of that kind.
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Yeah well not being prepared for the real world is still a lot better than you know killing yourself before you're even old enough to experience the real world
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
Hmmm that's actually true. Change what I said to "electively separating" then, because I still think this is stupid. One of the best ways for young people to accept homosexuality is for their friends or people they know to come out. If straight guys never meet/know gay people in high school, then they're possibly only going to be more homophobic as adults, just through a lack of knowing any gay people. My old flatmate was the most masculine gay guy I've ever met, he was kind of bogan and all of his friends seemed like they would be the most homophobic people in the world, yet they weren't, because they'd gotten to know him, love him and see him as their friend before he came out. Admittedly, he's not the sort of person who would have gone to one of these schools, because it would have meant coming out at the age of like 13.
We actually do have a school similar to this in Sydney. It's not an LGBT school, but it's a school for kids who've been bullied and a significant portion of students there just happen to be gay considering mental illness affects a lot of LGBT teens. My little cousin's gay and she goes there. She has green hair (or she did last time I checked, it's constantly changing) and they don't wear a uniform, which is really uncommon in Australia.
I guess in that sense, it's a good idea. But I don't think it's practical for regular gay kids who aren't affected by mental illness. And when I say it's not practical, I mean it's not like that in the real world. When you go out into the real world, you're not going to interact with gays only and have only gay friends and work with only gay people. High school should be about preparing people for the real world. And as for religious schools that separate students based on religion, I also think those are stupid. Probably because I'm an anti-theist who thinks religion itself is stupid. I went to a Catholic school and no one I knew believed in God. We all think it was because we studied the Bible and were taught about all the different religions. As Christopher Hitchens said, the best way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible.
But yeah, I think religious schools, all-gender schools, all-sexuality schools, all-race schools, etc. are a bad idea. I think a lot of Islamophobia would exist in Christian and Jewish schools. I think a lot of anti-Semitism would exist in Islamic schools. I think a lot of misogyny would exist in all boys schools. I think a lot of homophobia would be perpetuated by the fact that there were no gay kids around, with their brave friends there to defend them. I was getting called a ****** and a poof in Business Studies once, and they were getting my name wrong, and my friend Lexy (who had dated one of the guys) turned around and said to him "if you're going to call him a ******, at least get his name right, and even if he is, at least his dick is probably bigger than 8cm" and everyone went "OHHHHHH!!!!" It was iconic, tbh.
I just think the solution to the bullying problem isn't to victimise kids and put them in a school with other victims. It's to make those doing the bullying realise that what they're doing is cruel, and to encourage those who witness bullying to stand up for what's right and say "you're being a dick, stop it."
This idea just seems like a way for gay introverts to make friends, but the truth of the matter is, sometimes you've got to put yourself out there in the world to make friends. And I think these would be rare. Really rare. I don't think 10% of people are gay. I think that's something they just tell young gay people to help them accept their sexualities. I live in one of the gay capitals of the world and in 2 weeks time we have gay pride. There's gonna be an after-party with like 20,000 shirtless guys running around, heyy-ayyy and the city has a population of like 5 million people. Obviously not all gay people are out/into that sort of party, but still, it's not 10% in my opinion. Nowhere near that. I don't think they'd get enough students to facilitate these. There's be like a few in London, New York and L.A. and parents from interstate wouldn't pay for their kids to board there. They'd be tiny little schools.
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Girl... you win.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy Gills
Yeah well not being prepared for the real world is still a lot better than you know killing yourself before you're even old enough to experience the real world
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True, but this isn't the case with most gay teens. Yes, it's alarmingly high, but it's not the norm. Besides, suicidal gay teenagers can barely even bring themselves to say "mom, dad, I'm getting bullied at school because everyone thinks that I'm gay." Imagine how much harder it would be for them to say "mom, dad, I'm getting bullied at school for being gay, because, well, they're right and I actually am and I would like to go to the all-gay school so I can be safe, please."
Suicidal teens can't even open up about the fact that they're getting bullied. They don't even have to say why they're getting bullied. They just can't even tell anyone about it in the first place. They try so hard to keep it a secret. The solution is getting them to open up and talk about it in the first place. It's daunting enough to say "I'm getting bullied." Coming out to your family and then asking to go to the LGBT school on top of that would be a million times more daunting for a 13-15 year old to say.
I never told my parents I was getting bullied. They found out I got shoved around at a party in Year 10 (I was 14 or 15) for being gay and I denied it profusely. I felt like acknowledging it would mean coming out and I just wasn't ready. I hadn't even accepted my sexuality myself. I was no where near ready for anyone else to know, let alone my family.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 23,375
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
True, but this isn't the case with most gay teens. Yes, it's alarmingly high, but it's not the norm. Besides, suicidal gay teenagers can barely even bring themselves to say "mom, dad, I'm getting bullied at school because everyone thinks that I'm gay." Imagine how much harder it would be for them to say "mom, dad, I'm getting bullied at school for being gay, because, well, they're right and I actually am and I would like to go to the all-gay school so I can be safe, please."
Suicidal teens can't even open up about the fact that they're getting bullied. They don't even have to say why they're getting bullied. They just can't even tell anyone about it in the first place. They try so hard to keep it a secret. The solution is getting them to open up and talk about it in the first place. It's daunting enough to say "I'm getting bullied." Coming out to your family and then asking to go to the LGBT school on top of that would be a million times more daunting for a 13-15 year old to say.
I never told my parents I was getting bullied. They found out I got shoved around at a party in Year 10 (I was 14 or 15) for being gay and I denied it profusely. I felt like acknowledging it would mean coming out and I just wasn't ready. I hadn't even accepted my sexuality myself. I was no where near ready for anyone else to know, let alone my family.
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This is actually not true most suicidal teens actually display and voice their desires to commit suicide. But it often goes ignored or put off to them being teens and dramatic. Well there's obviously going to be those cases where kids aren't out and can't bring themselves to tell their parents but what about the kids who are out and their bullied? The ones who stay home because every day is hell and as much as their parents complain nothing is done to their bullies... It's not ideal but it's better than the nothing that's being done.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy Gills
This is actually not true most suicidal teens actually display and voice their desires to commit suicide. But it often goes ignored or put off to them being teens and dramatic. Well there's obviously going to be those cases where kids aren't out and can't bring themselves to tell their parents but what about the kids who are out and their bullied? The ones who stay home because every day is hell and as much as their parents complain nothing is done to their bullies... It's not ideal but it's better than the nothing that's being done.
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Really? Do you have a study to back that up or a video proving it? Because I find that hard to believe. I'm only basing my assumption on documentaries I've seen on teen suicide, like 'Bully' as well as interviews with the parents of teens who've committed suicide. They always say "we had no idea" - "he/she never said anything was wrong" - "we just found him in his bedroom the next morning" - "she seemed fine that night, she kissed me on the cheek and said goodnight, and then she was gone" - "he was probably too afraid or embarrassed or ashamed to speak up."
A newspaper here called The Sunday Telegraph ran a story on teen suicide a few weeks ago and every parent interviewed in it said the exact same thing. So if it's not true, I'm really interested to read what the research actually shows about teens speaking up.
However even if you are right, which I reiterate, I don't think you are, I think you're making that up, your logic is still flawed. If kids are speaking up about the fact that they're being bullied and are suicidal, and their parents are doing nothing about it, then what makes you think they'll do something when the kid says they're being bullied, are suicidal AND would like for their parents to pay for an expensive private boarding school for LGBT teens near a major city?
edit: here's the article I was talking about :
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227131795154
It even says:
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He gave no hint anything was wrong as the family got ready for bed that night but the next morning Jayden’s family found his body.
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and
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A Year Nine girl at a third school also threatened to end her own life, before being persuaded not to do so.
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Speaking out helps. I'm sorry but parents and friends don't ignore suicide threats or discredit it as "teens being dramatic." I think you just made that up. If you have anything backing up that claim though, I would love to read it.
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Member Since: 4/7/2009
Posts: 34,961
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Quote:
Originally posted by iHype.
Girl... you win.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 23,375
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
Really? Do you have a study to back that up or a video proving it? Because I find that hard to believe. I'm only basing my assumption on documentaries I've seen on teen suicide, like 'Bully' as well as interviews with the parents of teens who've committed suicide. They always say "we had no idea" - "he/she never said anything was wrong" - "we just found him in his bedroom the next morning" - "she seemed fine that night, she kissed me on the cheek and said goodnight, and then she was gone" - "he was probably too afraid or embarrassed or ashamed to speak up."
A newspaper here called The Sunday Telegraph ran a story on teen suicide a few weeks ago and every parent interviewed in it said the exact same thing. So if it's not true, I'm really interested to read what the research actually shows about teens speaking up.
However even if you are right, which I reiterate, I don't think you are, I think you're making that up, your logic is still flawed. If kids are speaking up about the fact that they're being bullied and are suicidal, and their parents are doing nothing about it, then what makes you think they'll do something when the kid says they're being bullied, are suicidal AND would like for their parents to pay for an expensive private boarding school for LGBT teens near a major city?
edit: here's the article I was talking about :
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227131795154
It even says:
and
Speaking out helps. I'm sorry but parents and friends don't ignore suicide threats or discredit it as "teens being dramatic." I think you just made that up. If you have anything backing up that claim though, I would love to read it.
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It's 5am and I don't have time to go searching for credible case studies, but I'm a psych major and yes most teens display tons of signs before they even committed suicide, change of attitude, depression, weight lost, acting out, physically harming themselves. But like I said a lot of that gets written off as teens being teens or ignored because parents don't want to face what's in front of them.
You don't have to believe me or think i'm right, but you're basing what you know off of 2 things and I'm going off years of what i've been taught and studied
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Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 6,308
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This is such a great discussion. I love reading everyones opinions
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy Gills
It's 5am and I don't have time to go searching for credible case studies, but I'm a psych major and yes most teens display tons of signs before they even committed suicide, change of attitude, depression, weight lost, acting out, physically harming themselves. But like I said a lot of that gets written off as teens being teens or ignored because parents don't want to face what's in front of them.
You don't have to believe me or think i'm right, but you're basing what you know off of 2 things and I'm going off years of what i've been taught and studied
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Ok but I'm not talking about them demonstrating suicidal signs through their behaviour at home, I'm talking about them actually speaking up and having a serious, serious conversation about bullying and suicide with their parents. One that highlights the magnitude of what they're going through. Not something that arises suspicions and makes mum and dad go "hmmm, I think something might be up..."
Those suicidal signs you listed - depression, weight loss, reclusiveness, self-harm, etc. aren't gay exclusive. All parents need to be taught about this because mental health issues affect everyone. I think the biggest problem is that most parents don't even know that those are suicidal signs. Which makes us come full circle, and in that sense - you're right, it gets discarded as "teens being teens." But like I said, I was talking specifically about teens owning up to being bullied - badly, to the point of suicide - so they can ask to go to another school. Not them exhibiting signs that something might be up through a change in behaviour at home. But actually speaking up and having a conversation about it with their parents, which I think can be incredibly hard to do. Add coming out at a really young age and then asking to go to a really expensive school in another city that most parents probably wouldn't be able to afford, and I can't imagine those suicidal gay teens being able to do that as well.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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And I mean, if your kid is walking around the house with bleeding/scarred wrists and you're aware of it, and are actively choosing to ignore it or dismiss it as "teens being teens" then I don't care how much denial you're in, you're a ****ty parent and you shouldn't have kids.
If they're doing nothing about that, then I doubt they're the sort of parents who would help them change schools, especially if it's far away and/or expensive.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 10,844
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this is so wrong
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 2,096
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I don't think children are mature enough to make this decision in any case they would need their parents’ consent. They would be forced to come out, plus it would have to be a private school and cost a lot of money. How many kids are they going to get to attend under these conditions?
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Member Since: 4/30/2011
Posts: 21,827
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This is so dumb. Also, shouldn't it be L GBT?
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drowned_World
This is so dumb. Also, shouldn't it be L GBT?
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It should actually be GLBT
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