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News: Forcing gender roles on kids is harmful, study shows.
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badger
I guess I can never agree with you on this. As a society, i don't think things should be divided on the basis of gender, and I don't believe that children indistinctly gravitate towards things that are gender appropriate - because very few things in life are innately geared towards genders.
Personally, I feel that gender roles are wrong and unneeded. The behaviour and personal tastes of boys/girls men/women should not be generalised or viewed as natural.
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I never said anything about what's gender appropriate though. Going back to the toys example, I don't think Barbies and Disney princesses are inappropriate for boys. I grew up playing with them as a kid. Probably because I'm gay. All I said was that just because they exist, it isn't the end of the world. Some franchises are seen to be for boys. Some are for girls. That's ok. It's alright if some things are targeted towards boys and some things are targeted towards girls. So what if boys and girls like different things? I say just let each kid like whatever the **** they want to like, but don't act surprised when a significant majority of girls go for the barbies and a significant majority of boys go for the trucks and superheroes.
And as for that "very few things in life are innately geared towards genders" thing - nothing is innately geared. It all requires some form of effort from humans. What I'm say is that the demand for those products is driving the supply. For example, makeup is geared towards women. Football and car-racing are geared towards women. High fashion houses are geared towards women. Beer is geared towards men. Why? Because we like different things, and again, that's ok.
Far out. All I said was that the key word of the article was "forcing." It doesn't matter if the articles on gender roles or sexuality or whatever, the key word would have always been forcing, because most people (in the west at least) do what they want.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 8,969
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Well gender roles are there for a reason, let's face it.
Women are women. Men are men.
Blurring the lines between the two will only result in confusion and chaos, and such, everyone should stick to their lanes.
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That's easy to say if you're someone who fits in easily/naturally into devised gender roles, but for other individuals it can cause unnecessary suffering.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 23,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Well gender roles are there for a reason, let's face it.
Women are women. Men are men.
Blurring the lines between the two will only result in confusion and chaos, and such, everyone should stick to their lanes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
ISome franchises are seen to be for boys. Some are for girls. That's ok.
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It's not ok. Why should there be a need to present things as meant for certain genders when either gender can use them? There is no point in dividing things for men and women. Humanity doesn't need pointless divisions.
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Member Since: 4/22/2012
Posts: 5,740
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badger
It's not ok. Why should there be a need to present things as meant for certain genders when either gender can use them? There is no point in dividing things for men and women. Humanity doesn't need pointless divisions.
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Yeah it kinda does. For example, why would you let a female wrestle against a male when males are physically stronger? That's why there are male and female divisions in sports. In all, some things are gender exclusive because of nature.
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange
I agree if a boy wants to play with dolls and wear dresses or whatever, and vice versa for girls, then fine. I don't agree with these tumblr minded parents raising 'genderless' children and letting them decide when they're older. What a guaranteed way to **** up your child.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rascal
That's easy to say if you're someone who fits in easily/naturally into devised gender roles, but for other individuals it can cause unnecessary suffering.
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Yeah but the point Rihinvention is trying to make is pretty valid.
Those outliers are pretty much restricted to the gay community, who quite frankly are not that significant %wise.
As for the rest of the population-- the males are automatically attracted to aggressive, masculine objects such as trucks, action movies and combat gear (bc that's how testosterone works) and the females gravitate towards barbie dolls, furry animals and such (bc progesterone activates their maternal instincts).
Amd those are scientific facts.
It's nature, society isn't forcing them to play with trucks and dolls.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badger
It's not ok. Why should there be a need to present things as meant for certain genders when either gender can use them? There is no point in dividing things for men and women. Humanity doesn't need pointless divisions.
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Because that's the thing - often the opposite gender doesn't want to use them! I don't want to buy lipstick. I don't want to wear a dress. I don't want long hair down to my waist. I don't want to watch Pretty Little Liars. Do I begrudge my girlfriends for wanting all that? No. Not at all. They're girls, and they just naturally like that crap, because, well, they're really girly girls.
I live in a free country. If I wanted to wear lipstick I would. But I'm not going to walk into the make-up aisle at the supermarket and go "enough of these pointless divisions! Stop dividing things into men and women. I'm sick of certain products being for men and certain products being for women! I'm going to put on mascara and shove a tampon up my arsehole." - Why don't I do that? I don't want to. I could if I wanted to. But I don't want to. And I wouldn't hold it against a guy if he did want to wear makeup, but that's an incredibly small minority of people.
Some things are presented to men. Some are presented to women. That's just basic marketing. It's not discrimination. Very often we have different interests. Sometimes we don't. That's ok. It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal when you start forcing someone of another gender to not like things that are outside their gender, because then you're imposing on their free will.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/12/2012
Posts: 9,586
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Yeah but the point Rihinvention is trying to make is pretty valid.
Those outliers are pretty much restricted to the gay community, who quite frankly are not that significant %wise.
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Don't lie to yourself. The gay community is 10-15% of men, the lesbian community is 5-10% of women. The transgender community is %1 of all people. The Queer community make up a quarter of the population almost.
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As for the rest of the population-- the males are automatically attracted to aggressive, masculine objects such as trucks, action movies and combat gear (bc that's how testosterone works) and the females gravitate towards barbie dolls, furry animals and such (bc progesterone activates their maternal instincts).
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Then explain why some girls play with trucks until they see other girls with barbies and conform accordingly?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 693
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Kids have a very limited concept of what they actually like and parents are quite willing to assume gender roles exist unless it's abundantly clear that isn't the case. If you live in a household with no siblings of the opposite gender you can be quite easily be pushed into a soft gender role even if you are a relatively open individual.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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I would actually say it is beneficial in order to live happily in this corrupt world.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Yeah but the point Rihinvention is trying to make is pretty valid.
Those outliers are pretty much restricted to the gay community, who quite frankly are not that significant %wise.
As for the rest of the population-- the males are automatically attracted to aggressive, masculine objects such as trucks, action movies and combat gear (bc that's how testosterone works) and the females gravitate towards barbie dolls, furry animals and such (bc progesterone activates their maternal instincts).
Amd those are scientific facts.
It's nature, society isn't forcing them to play with trucks and dolls.
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This is a very good view of looking at it.
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Member Since: 10/9/2011
Posts: 8,131
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by seaɴ.
Don't lie to yourself. The gay community is 10-15% of men, the lesbian community is 5-10% of women. The transgender community is %1 of all people. The Queer community make up a quarter of the population almost.
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Ok, even if that were true, 15% of men plus 10% of women does not equal 25% of the population. That's just bad math.
Do you have receipts for those statistics though? because they seem entirely fabricated.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 23,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by King B
Yeah it kinda does. For example, why would you let a female wrestle against a male when males are physically stronger? That's why there are male and female divisions in sports. In all, some things are gender exclusive because of nature.
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I'm surprised that there is so much reinforcement of sexist generalisations on this site. Wrestling specifically should be treated on an individual basis. All men are not stronger than all women, and there are plenty of female wrestlers who are stronger than male wrestlers. Fighters should be matched equally regardless of their gender.
And if there are two male fighters that oppose each other and are significantly unequal in terms of strength, then women might as well be made able to fight men.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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I don't believe you. My mom let the reigns free on us, and my sister is addicted to GTA and Test Drive & I care more about art than sport. I'm not even a lads, lad anymore. I wish she did force me into football practice
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Member Since: 4/22/2012
Posts: 5,740
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badger
I'm surprised that there is so much reinforcement of sexist generalisations on this site. Wrestling specifically should be treated on an individual basis. All men are not stronger than all women, and there are plenty of female wrestlers who are stronger than male wrestlers. Fighters should be matched equally regardless of their gender.
And if there are two male fighters that oppose each other and are significantly unequal in terms of strength, then women might as well be made able to fight men.
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First, I'm not saying that all men are stronger than females, or vice versa. There are factors to weigh in. What is scientifically true is that males produce more testosterone which promotes muscle growth. It's done to promote safety. Our bodies aren't built that same way.
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 5,014
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange
I agree if a boy wants to play with dolls and wear dresses or whatever, and vice versa for girls, then fine. I don't agree with these tumblr minded parents raising 'genderless' children and letting them decide when they're older. What a guaranteed way to **** up your child.
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People do that?!
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Anyway, this should be common sense for any parent but it just isn't unfortunately. I was taught gender roles at a young age, my parents didn't force me but I did used to be ridiculed by people for being feminine and was told that I act like a girl, so from then on I forced myself to be a bit more boyish. So I'd play videogames and watch action movies and whatnot (I HATE SPORTS), but I always gravitated towards things with a strong female lead in. I have always been obsessed with heroines. Like I loved Tomb Raider and the movies, Resident Evil for Claire, Jill, Ada and ofc Alice in the movies, and the list goes on.
Anyway, back to when I was younger. I moved schools at about 5 or 6 and I had a group of boy friends (I used to talk to the girls too) until I was about 8 years old. Then this girl moved into school and we became best friends, we still are good friends today, and it all changed. I also started getting into pop music here too so the boys kind of abandoned me and then Gaga came along and slayed my existence and my flamboyance started to come out
At this point I knew I was attracted to boys (I actually had a few little boyfriend I used to go in the toilets and basically make out with when I was about 4 or 5 ) but I still tried to forget about it and ignore it, until I started high school when I was 11. I developed a few crushes and I basically became the **** that I am here.
Because of my utter fabulousness and femininity, in year 8 when I found a group of popular girls who I started hanging round with, they basically asked me if I was gay and I was kind of pressured to come out. I told one of them I was bi (this is not true tho really lol, I was confused, now I like to say I'm sexually fluid). Anyway, one of them told the rest of them, then two of them spread it around school. And that day I was devastated and crying and I CAME for them bitches (but we friends now tho )
So I was basically openly gay at school, my mum was the only one that knew in my family and was accepting (she probs knew tho really). But even though I was out, I just didn't feel comfortable. I was coming home crying because I didn't feel good enough, and I was (and still am) so concious about my body - I wanted big hips, fat thighs and ASS. And I started to want boobs kinda too. When I was really young I played dress up and pretended to be Mulan. I always thought from a young age what it would be like if I was a girl, and I prayed to be reincarnated into one or be a girl in another life. But I hid this away, I thought "I'm not like that, I'm not transgender, that's too over the top". But one day at school two of my friends asked me if I ever feel like a girl or want to be one. Ofc I said no, bit everything clicked then. When I got home I broke down in tears, and accepted myself finally. "This is what I am. I'm a girl."
So now my parents and my sister know everything, I told 3 of my friends (WHO I CAN TRUST) and I've got an appointment this Tuesday (FINALLY after being referred to several people and having more delays than Broke With Expensive Taste) with an NHS nurse who specializes in gender I presume.
However, my Dad is not accepting and my Mum is supportive of me transitioning but at the same time doesn't really understand and it's not what she wants for me. They both asked me the other day "why can't you be normal? Why can't you be a man and get married to a woman? Why do you have to be different?". I cry whenever we talk about it and everyday is a struggle as I grow evermore into a man. I feel suicidal and depressed at times. I think my mum wants a doctor's confirmation and then she might not question it anymore (but I know she's hoping It's a "phase" or whatever). My dad told me that he'll always call me "Kalim", my name which is a boy's name and which I will change. Also my Mum says that looking at stuff on the internet gets stuff into my head and she's banned me from watching RuPaul's Drag Race even though drag queens are a TOTALLY different thing to transgender
But I know that this is my path inside. I know I'm a girl.
Well, that took me about 40 minutes to type
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 23,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
Because that's the thing - often the opposite gender doesn't want to use them! I don't want to buy lipstick. I don't want to wear a dress. I don't want long hair down to my waist. I don't want to watch Pretty Little Liars. Do I begrudge my girlfriends for wanting all that? No. Not at all. They're girls, and they just naturally like that crap, because, well, they're really girly girls.
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You're just assuming that your friends are naturally like that, and you're also assuming that lipstick and dresses and long hair are feminine.
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I live in a free country. If I wanted to wear lipstick I would. But I'm not going to walk into the make-up aisle at the supermarket and go "enough of these pointless divisions! Stop dividing things into men and women. I'm sick of certain products being for men and certain products being for women! I'm going to put on mascara and shove a tampon up my arsehole." - Why don't I do that? I don't want to. I could if I wanted to. But I don't want to. And I wouldn't hold it against a guy if he did want to wear makeup, but that's an incredibly small minority of people.
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Technically tampons don't count in this argument because they relate to medical/biological differences in men and women and not gender.
And fine, you can just live with pointless divisions.
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Some things are presented to men. Some are presented to women. That's just basic marketing. It's not discrimination. Very often we have different interests. Sometimes we don't. That's ok. It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal when you start forcing someone of another gender to not like things that are outside their gender, because then you're imposing on their free will.
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I have already said why it's not ok.
Dividing things based on gender is the same thing as dividing things based on race or sexuality. It is nothing to do with nature or biology, it is to do with ignorance.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/12/2012
Posts: 9,586
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I think children should be raised genderless and decide what they want to be when they're older - it's the only healthy way.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by YUNGKALIMXEL
People do that?!
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Anyway, this should be common sense for any parent but it just isn't unfortunately. I was taught gender roles at a young age, my parents didn't force me but I did used to be ridiculed by people for being feminine and was told that I act like a girl, so from then on I forced myself to be a bit more boyish. So I'd play videogames and watch action movies and whatnot (I HATE SPORTS), but I always gravitated towards things with a strong female lead in. I have always been obsessed with heroines. Like I loved Tomb Raider and the movies, Resident Evil for Claire, Jill, Ada and ofc Alice in the movies, and the list goes on.
Anyway, back to when I was younger. I moved schools at about 5 or 6 and I had a group of boy friends (I used to talk to the girls too) until I was about 8 years old. Then this girl moved into school and we became best friends, we still are good friends today, and it all changed. I also started getting into pop music here too so the boys kind of abandoned me and then Gaga came along and slayed my existence and my flamboyance started to come out
At this point I knew I was attracted to boys (I actually had a few little boyfriend I used to go in the toilets and basically make out with when I was about 4 or 5 ) but I still tried to forget about it and ignore it, until I started high school when I was 11. I developed a few crushes and I basically became the **** that I am here.
Because of my utter fabulousness and femininity, in year 8 when I found a group of popular girls who I started hanging round with, they basically asked me if I was gay and I was kind of pressured to come out. I told one of them I was bi (this is not true tho really lol, I was confused, now I like to say I'm sexually fluid). Anyway, one of them told the rest of them, then two of them spread it around school. And that day I was devastated and crying and I CAME for them bitches (but we friends now tho )
So I was basically openly gay at school, my mum was the only one that knew in my family and was accepting (she probs knew tho really). But even though I was out, I just didn't feel comfortable. I was coming home crying because I didn't feel good enough, and I was (and still am) so concious about my body - I wanted big hips, fat thighs and ASS. And I started to want boobs kinda too. When I was really young I played dress up and pretended to be Mulan. I always thought from a young age what it would be like if I was a girl, and I prayed to be reincarnated into one or be a girl in another life. But I hid this away, I thought "I'm not like that, I'm not transgender, that's too over the top". But one day at school two of my friends asked me if I ever feel like a girl or want to be one. Ofc I said no, bit everything clicked then. When I got home I broke down in tears, and accepted myself finally. "This is what I am. I'm a girl."
So now my parents and my sister know everything, I told 3 of my friends (WHO I CAN TRUST) and I've got an appointment this Tuesday (FINALLY after being referred to several people and having more delays than Broke With Expensive Taste) with an NHS nurse who specializes in gender I presume.
However, my Dad is not accepting and my Mum is supportive of me transitioning but at the same time doesn't really understand and it's not what she wants for me. They both asked me the other day "why can't you be normal? Why can't you be a man and get married to a woman? Why do you have to be different?". I cry whenever we talk about it and everyday is a struggle as I grow evermore into a man. I feel suicidal and depressed at times. I think my mum wants a doctor's confirmation and then she might not question it anymore (but I know she's hoping It's a "phase" or whatever). My dad told me that he'll always call me "Kalim", my name which is a boy's name and which I will change. Also my Mum says that looking at stuff on the internet gets stuff into my head and she's banned me from watching RuPaul's Drag Race even though drag queens are a TOTALLY different thing to transgender
But I know that this is my path inside. I know I'm a girl.
Well, that took me about 40 minutes to type
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How old are you? You seem pretty young judging from this post, so I suggest you to wait until you become older to make such a vast decision - for you and your family.
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