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News: Malaysian press charges Ukraine government with MH17 downing
Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Malaysian press charges Ukraine government with MH17 downing
This is a piece of news that has been widely reported in the non-Western countries, but is nowhere to be found in the Western media and probably never will be. The source is New Straits Times, Malaysia's premier English-language newspaper.
Just remember, if there really is ONE neutral party to all of this that has no vital interests tied up in either Russia or Ukraine, that just wants to get to the truth, it’s the Malaysians.
Quote:
KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.
This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.
In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.
This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organisation.
In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.
They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and Eurocontrol.
“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures.
“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.
Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.
Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.
Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.
Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine.
In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days”.
“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.
Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence.
“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come later,” Parry had said.
Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit.
“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile.
“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly.”
He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.
“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 15,103
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but it's not the ukranian government that shot the plain, but the russians in Ukraine
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by Navyofbadgals
but it's not the ukranian government that shot the plain, but the russians in Ukraine
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 At least ****ing read a few sentences before you speak.
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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We'll probably never know the truth anyway. If the Ukrainian government shot it down, they and the western countries will want it buried, if it's the Russian rebels then it's Russia that will likely bury the whole thing.
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
We'll probably never know the truth anyway. If the Ukrainian government shot it down, they and the western countries will want it buried, if it's the Russian rebels then it's Russia that will likely bury the whole thing.
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Except there can't be any burying on Russia's part when the whole world is already pointing its finger at them.
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desperate Fantast
Except there can't be any burying on Russia's part when the whole world is already pointing its finger at them.
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The world has no attention span. Most people already don't care anymore.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 12,199
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It was shot down by a ground to air missile tho, not an air to air one. There's a lot of inconsistencies in that article
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange
It was shot down by a ground to air missile tho, not an air to air one. There's a lot of inconsistencies in that article
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“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
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The article addresses this in length. Did you even read it?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 12,199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desperate Fantast
The article addresses this in length. Did you even read it?
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You clearly have an agenda and are basing your entire argument on one article.
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange
You clearly have an agenda and are basing your entire argument on one article.
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At least I'm basing it on something. This is a well-written investigative report with actual evidence to back its claims. That's more than what one can say about the Western governments and corporate media who have based their accusations on absolutely nothing.
And please - it's ****ing lame to point your finger at the messenger. You are welcomed to argue the issue but get the **** out you have to resort to personal attacks.
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Member Since: 4/4/2011
Posts: 2,385
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The bolded is a LIE. Only a nutjob conspiracy site posted that nonsense. No one at the AP did. Robert Parry is NOT affiliated with the AP.
SO amazing at how conspiracy theorists who want to open up the ''truth'' about the world LIE.
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mean Trees
The bolded is a LIE. Only a nutjob conspiracy site posted that nonsense. No one at the AP did. Robert Parry is NOT affiliated with the AP.
SO amazing at how conspiracy theorists who want to open up the ''truth'' about the world LIE.
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Now we have a second source I guess. 
Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
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Oh and, keep saying nutjob as much as possible. Nothing else makes you sound like the voice of reason like that.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 12,199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desperate Fantast
At least I'm basing it on something. This is a well-written investigative report with actual evidence to back its claims. That's more than what one can say about the Western governments and corporate media who have based their accusations on absolutely nothing.
And please - it's ****ing lame to point your finger at the messenger. You are welcomed to argue the issue but get the **** out you have to resort to personal attacks.
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How was my comment a personal attack? If you had posted the article and said discuss, fine, you're posting an opinion piece and want people's response to it. Instead, you've been gung-ho from the beginning that Russia's not to blame and the responsibility lies with Ukraine.
This is a poor inconsistent article that reeks of conspiracy nonsense
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mean Trees
The bolded is a LIE. Only a nutjob conspiracy site posted that nonsense. No one at the AP did. Robert Parry is NOT affiliated with the AP.
SO amazing at how conspiracy theorists who want to open up the ''truth'' about the world LIE.
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Btw, look up the AP reporter mentioned in the article, Robert Parry, because you clearly didn't.
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desperate Fantast
Now we have a second source I guess.
Oh and, keep saying nutjob as much as possible. Nothing else makes you sound like the voice of reason like that. |
This article doesn't accuse Ukraine though. But if even ex-intelligence officers who battled against the Soviet Union are saying that, as of now, it's mostly a propaganda war based on thin air, then it's probably not far from the truth. Doesn't mean either side is not responsible, just that the proofs are very weak.
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Member Since: 1/21/2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange
How was my comment a personal attack? If you had posted the article and said discuss, fine, you're posting an opinion piece and want people's response to it. Instead, you've been gung-ho from the beginning that Russia's not to blame and the responsibility lies with Ukraine.
This is a poor inconsistent article that reeks of conspiracy nonsense
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Because anything that contradicts what the corporate media declare as the truth has to be conspiracy nonsense.
Seriously, lay off that ****ing insufferable word.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 12,199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desperate Fantast
Because anything that contradicts what the corporate media declare as the truth has to be conspiracy nonsense.
Seriously, lay off that ****ing insufferable word.
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I didn't say that all, corporate media and governments lie and manipulate the news all the time for their own agendas, I just don't agree with this particle article.
You're very hostile and defensive for no apparent reason....
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 19,418
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The US already investigated it. They said Russians did it, they even have a receipts to prove it.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Expose them.
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