I think men do objectify women even more when they take their clothes off. However, this says more about the men than it does about the women. The solution shouldn't be to tell women to put their clothes back on. The solution should be to tell the men to stop objectifying and degrading. But how can we solve this problem?

As a women it becomes a back and forth thing, but I think I finally figured it out for myself. I feel that society has installed that men have a right or a excuse to disrespect women when they have less clothing on or are in a bikini, etc and that women who dress like that often or for say a bikini model shouldn't expect men to have much respect for her or see her as much more because of that but in reality that form of thinking is injustice so that's where the root of the problem is. A women who decides for herself that she wants to take her clothes off isn't disrespecting herself, self respect is about making choices that are better for you because you respect/love yourself, not because of what clothes you decide to put on or take off. This is in my opinion

i can relate

I think it depends on why they're "taking their clothes off."

If a woman is dressing provocatively for men, as in a job that caters to men or in an instance to get what they want... it's wrong.

But if a woman is just expressing herself by dressing provocatively and doing it solely because she wants to... it's awesome. That to me is a powerful feminist.

If a man degrades her by throwing themselves at her, insults her or physically harms her... that would be all his fault. She never dressed a certain way to attract that man. She did it for her and it's not her fault if a scum bag threatens her character or wellbeing for it.

Women should do what they want to. The problem comes in when women feel either pressured to take their clothes off, or keep their clothes on.

I agree. A woman in a bikini should be respected just as much as woman who is covered up. And it's sad because even a lot of women buy into the idea that women who wear less deserve to be respected less and degraded. I really wonder how this issue can be fixed.

I agree, there is definitely a difference between women who dress provocatively for men and women who do it to express themselves. I worry that it's all lumped in together and (straight) men don't see the difference. Women who do it to express themselves still get degraded because men just see **** and ass and dismiss them as just another "hoe".

Feminism is about respecting a woman's choice no matter what. So by that standard I'm ok with it. I think if men can't take any woman seriously because he sees her as a sex symbol (which is fine if he sees her as a person as well) then he needs to GTFO.

Feminism is the ideology that women should have equal social, political, and economic power on par with that of men. A woman taking off her clothes has nothing to do with anything.

Well said.

We shouldn't focus on a woman taking off her clothes but rather how she is perceived, especially by men. Men shouldn't objectify women in the first place. Feminism is respecting the personal choice of the female to do as she pleases with her clothing and her right to be respected for it.

So what if a woman wants to take her clothes off for men? Let her do whatever she wants.

Some really great insights (rare on ATRL).

Looks like you're not familiar with second-wave and third-wave feminism.

Great thread with some great answers
Good job ATRL!