“I think it’s more a psychological thing now,” she muses. “Everything is very legit and we get paid the same as men – err, I’m sure there are statistics to say we don’t! – but we have the same opportunities. At the same time, why have I never met a female producer? In four years, not one? There’s a mentality of, ‘You can sing? Okay, well you sit there and let me produce and you should sing this and dress like this’. Behind the picture you see, there’s a whole load of men.”
How did she feel, through the noughties, as a Nina Simone-obsessed songwriting teenager watching a generation of female pop stars wilfully dress like strippers (until Adele made it okay to put your clothes back on)?
“At some point I definitely felt, ‘Well I don’t look right to be a singer and I don’t wanna dress like that’,” she nods. “So I’m glad as a kid I had really old references like Nina and Billie Holiday. I saw there was another option. I feel for girls who are never introduced to musicians. I’ve just always grown up with a sense of responsibility.
“It sounds really old-fashioned, but with privilege comes responsibility. This is the best job in the world and you’re responsible for the people who see you. So I don’t understand that world at all, because it’s nothing I ever wanted to do.”
