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Discussion: Is monogamy realistic?
Member Since: 3/25/2011
Posts: 10,337
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http://makeitbetter.net/better-you/sex-and-the-suburbs/5889-is-monogamy-realistic-no-says-dan-savage
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Marjie Killeen: Do you think monogamy is a realistic expectation in modern marriages and long-term relationships?
Dan Savage: It is unrealistic. The stats show that expecting someone to be monogamous all their life—especially that your very special snowflake marriage will be untouched by this thing that happens to almost all marriages—is unrealistic. I’m not saying that people who want monogamy shouldn’t go for it and shouldn’t expect their partner to honor the monogamous commitment they made. I just want people to be realistic about what happens the day after an infidelity. Who do you want to be?
The conversation we need to be having is not is monogamy good or bad—it’s how much importance you’re going to place on perfectly executed monogamous behavior over the course of five decades of marriage. And if you think monogamy is more important than every other consideration, then you’re probably going to get divorced.
Are there times when you think it’s OK to cheat?
It is glib and unhelpful for people to say cheating is always wrong. People write me about real circumstances for which there is no good or easy answer. I’ve received letters from people where their partner of 25 years is done with sex, refuses to have it. They (the writer) have been doing without sex for years, and they’re going out of their minds. But their partner is dependent on them for health care, they have small children, or they can’t afford to break up or get divorced. I look at that situation and I say, “Cheat. Cheating is the least worst option.” There are higher forms of loyalty than the loyalty you show with your [private parts].
Why tell somebody to end what could be a very fulfilling partnership and a terrific friendship because of sex? Is it more honorable to divorce and then find sex than it is to stay married and stay faithful in other ways, and get sex elsewhere? Especially when it’s nothing your partner values or desires? That’s not cheating. That’s relieving your partner of a responsibility and a burden they don’t wish to shoulder.
When you talk about being “monogam-ish” you don’t just mean forgiving your partner for the occasional slip up or affair. You mean having an ongoing understanding that some infidelity is OK.
Monogam-ish isn’t prescriptive; it’s a term I coined to describe my relationship. We’re mostly monogamous, much more monogamous than not. But there is some allowance and wiggle room around the edges that we both agreed to that makes us both happy—which is different than cheating.
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I find this conversation really interesting - do you agree with Dan and think monogamy is a waning value in modern marriages? Or is Dan wrong?
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Member Since: 9/22/2011
Posts: 9,178
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Realistic as in possible? Yes.
Easy/convenient/biologically natural? Probably not.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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I disagree with him. Cheating is never OK. You can't just make excuses to please your desires. That's one of the commitments if marriage. If you can't keep it don't get married.
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Member Since: 5/22/2011
Posts: 21,227
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I know plenty of happy couples who have broke up and it wasn't because sex, it was because feelings weren't there and they felt all they were using each other was for sex.
For some people if they can have a relationship where they are open about anything, good for them. I'm too insecure about myself to ever not have a monogamous relationship. When I'm dating someone I don't want to have the thought of someone I love getting intimate or kissing someone else but that's just me. 
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
I disagree with him. Cheating is never OK. You can't just make excuses to please your desires. That's one of the commitments if marriage. If you can't keep it don't get married.
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Well actually, in past centuries powerful men had very public mistresses. It was common, no one said it wasn't okay. Except maybe their wives. Today it's not commonly accepted though.
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Member Since: 10/19/2010
Posts: 3,941
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He speaks about statistics, yet the psychological, physiological, and emotional benefits of marriage and remaining monogamous are astronomically higher than those who "wane a little bit". If it was completely natural for us to stray from our partner, then why are these benefits so well recorded?
It sounds as if he's attempting to justify the infidelity he experiences in his relationship by saying "monogamy is unrealistic". It seems as if the only way he's been able to rationalize the state his relationship is in by attacking the concept of monogamy. The way he justifies cheating, and attributes staying faithful and loyal as a "burden" to your partner is saddening. It just demonstrates his deep-seated issues.
I believe everyone should be in the type of relationship they chose, but I cannot stand those who demonize monogamy as outdated simply because it wasn't for them. The research out there supports monogamy, and its overwhelming benefits.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ammer
He speaks about statistics, yet the psychological, physiological, and emotional benefits of marriage and remaining monogamous are astronomically higher than those who "wane a little bit". If it was completely natural for us to stray from our partner, then why are these benefits so well recorded?
It sounds as if he's attempting to justify the infidelity he experiences in his relationship by saying "monogamy is unrealistic". It seems as if the only way he's been able to rationalize the state his relationship is in by attacking the concept of monogamy. The way he justifies cheating, and attributes staying faithful and loyal as a "burden" to your partner is saddening. It just demonstrates his deep-seated issues.
I believe everyone should be in the type of relationship they chose, but I cannot stand those who demonize monogamy as outdated simply because it wasn't for them. The research out there supports monogamy, and its overwhelming benefits.
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What are you talking about? Dan Savage has been married to one man, who he has children with, for years. 
People can have different opinions than you without being insecure.
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Member Since: 5/22/2011
Posts: 21,227
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Quote:
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“Cheat. Cheating is the least worst option.” There are higher forms of loyalty than the loyalty you show with your [private parts].
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This is the only thing I don't agree with. If you need to go someone else to satisfy your sexual pleasure be honest about it with the person. Don't go behind their back. It's a lot rougher for the person to find out that they've been cheated on, then it is for them to know right away.
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Member Since: 10/19/2010
Posts: 3,941
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Quote:
Originally posted by J. YONCÉ
What are you talking about? Dan Savage has been married to one man, who he has children with, for years.
People can have different opinions than you without being insecure. |
From the article,
Quote:
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Monogam-ish isn’t prescriptive; it’s a term I coined to describe my relationship. We’re mostly monogamous, much more monogamous than not. But there is some allowance and wiggle room around the edges that we both agreed to that makes us both happy—which is different than cheating.
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That in and of itself indicates that there have been instances where infidelity occurred. The fact he's married with children does not disprove anything he's saying. He clearly indicates there have been times where either may have strayed.
Also, I never once said he was insecure. He could be insecure, but there are other issues which can be present as well.
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Member Since: 11/17/2011
Posts: 32,412
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mezik
This is the only thing I don't agree with. If you need to go someone else to satisfy your sexual pleasure be honest about it with the person. Don't go behind their back. It's a lot rougher for the person to find out that they've been cheated on, then it is for them to know right away.
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Right!
I don't think its unrealistic for someone to expect monogamy, just as I don't see it as unrealistic for someone to be in polyamarous relationships as long as the partners are okay with it.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,333
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Well actually, in past centuries powerful men had very public mistresses. It was common, no one said it wasn't okay. Except maybe their wives. Today it's not commonly accepted though. |
That was a time where divorce was prohibited, marriage was the societal norm and people had children to obtain more power, money and influence. The community won't shun you in 2014 if you don't get married, so why bother at all with taking a vow you don't plan on keeping?  It's an interesting debate, though
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Member Since: 3/25/2011
Posts: 10,337
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I think both partners in a relationship should set their own perimeters for their relationship and be able to do so free from judgement or ridicule. I agree with that aspect of Dan's argument. The problem I have with it is by saying monogamy is unrealistic it contributes to the whole "ah well, damn humans are just animals anyway" mentality which is actually not a progressive mindset, it's regressive and removes accountability from the equation.
Obv we all have our sexual desires but if you've agreed to a monogamous relationship and your consciousness can't override your urges then what's there to say? To me that's just the breaking of trust and security a relationship needs. Dan's whole "ah well statistics speaking!" argument doesn't cut it for me at all.
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Member Since: 5/22/2011
Posts: 21,227
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eaten By Lions
I think both partners in a relationship should set their own perimeters for their relationship and be able to do so free from judgement or ridicule. I agree with that aspect of Dan's argument. The problem I have with it is by saying monogamy is unrealistic it contributes to the whole "ah well, damn humans are just animals anyway" mentality which is actually not a progressive mindset, it's regressive and removes accountability from the equation.
Obv we all have our sexual desires but if you've agreed to a monogamous relationship and your consciousness can't override your urges than what's there to say? To me that's just the breaking of trust and security a relationship needs. Dan's whole "ah well statistics speaking!" argument doesn't cut it for me at all.
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I agree with this.
If I was at a point in my life where I knew I couldn't be faithful in a relationship I would either a) No be in one, or b) let whoever I was seeing know right away that the only way for it to work would be by having an open relationship.
That being said, where I'm at right now. I wouldn't want anything but monogamy.
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Member Since: 2/27/2012
Posts: 20,342
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So apparently sex is so important that when you do cheat, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. 
Yea no. Monogamy is realistic and possible. If you really love someone you won't cheat. Period.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ammer
From the article,
That in and of itself indicates that there have been instances where infidelity occurred. The fact he's married with children does not disprove anything he's saying. He clearly indicates there have been times where either may have strayed.
Also, I never once said he was insecure. He could be insecure, but there are other issues which can be present as well.
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It's not really infidelity though. They get each other's permission and approval before having any sort of extra-marital sex. Infidelity occurs when you violate your agreement with your partner, when you say you're monogamous and then sleep with someone else in secret. Having an express agreement that you can occasionally screw another person (with your partner's permission) just isn't quite the same thing.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 3,876
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Member Since: 8/6/2012
Posts: 20,242
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Just find someone willing to be in an open relationship and we wont have this problem.
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Member Since: 2/16/2012
Posts: 10,807
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arking
Realistic as in possible? Yes.
Easy/convenient/biologically natural? Probably not.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
I disagree with him. Cheating is never OK. You can't just make excuses to please your desires. That's one of the commitments if marriage. If you can't keep it don't get married.
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This.
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Member Since: 2/24/2012
Posts: 30,779
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It's been realistic for several thousand years.
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Member Since: 4/20/2012
Posts: 11,335
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apparently it's been realistic for the past few thousand centuries? like don't make excuses for yourself just because it's easier for other people to reserve themselves for one person. it IS realistic because it's completely possible.
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