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Celeb News: VH1: "ARTPOP is the Biggest Flop of 2013"
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikeymoonshine
MJ's 30 million budget was for the entire album I think and that was still a disaster, plus that was his choice not his labels. Artpop's supposed 25mill was just for promo and was originally written just to accuse her of Payola.
The Promo for Artpop was nothing next to BTW, Most of it was performances that Gaga would be payed to do not pay to do or ad deals like the O2 or the commercials thing that again Gaga wouldn't be paying for coz she was advertising them also in fact again they may have paid her.
It hardly had much in the way of billboards and tv ads either.
A massive Hollywood blockbuster movie may spend 25 mill on promo maybe but not a record label that is just silly.
Much of gaga's Promo isn't even payed for by Interscope like the Artrave for example that cost 3 mill but it was payed for by sponsorship, it was even in the news because the original sponsor pulled out and she had to find another.
Interscope wouldn't make 25 million anyway even if Artpop opened with BTW numbers so it doesn't make any sense, why would they set themselves up to make no money?
Think of all the other costs that come with putting an album out? How much was this supposed price tag for Artpop then?
I don't think Interscope made a loss at all they probably still made a profit because this album has been reasonably successful.
The person who wrote this was using a fake profile on a blogging site. Where did they get this info from? The Examiner is not a legit news site yet this "Journalist" claims to have insider information that no other journalist seems to have.
Also your comment about proof and evidence. This is not why it works, I don't have to disprove wild assertions made against me. The one making the assertion has to provide proof and evidence.
If I were to say I saw you raping a llama and gave no evidence would you be able to disprove that entirely? Should you even be expected to try?
You may find Gaga's word sketchy but I find the word of a made up person sketchier.
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I'm unsure what your first point is all about. "It was for the entire album" but that's exactly what we are talking about here: An entire album. The reported stories say the ALBUM'S promo budget was 25M. I also don't underastand what you mean when you say "It was his choice" - Actually, no it wasn't. No matter how big the star from Michael to Madonna to even lady gaga the promo budgets are the choice of the label. These are business people that make business decisions. If you can show me something official thay says it was Michaels choice and not his labels then i'll be open to reading that but that comment that it was his chice just doesn't make much sense (no offence)
I totally disagree that the promo for ARTPOP was nothing next to BTW and to be perfectly honest with you, your next comment goes to show your lack of knowledge in this matter (again, no offence there's no shame in not knowing how this works. I assume you're a teenager) so let me help you out - Gaga does not get paid for performances such as GMA, itunes festival etc etc etc, it's all promo that the artist NEEDS and here again is where you are wrong, these perfomances cost GAGA'S TEAM money. Think for a moment.... who pays for
- Accomodation for gaga AND her team & travel costs
- staging and production costs
-props etc
- The dancers/band while performing the shows/performances
- The rehersal set up costs
- The rate the danacers/band charge for rehersals
-Costumes
- etc etc etc
All of those things are the responsibility of the label to pay and the above goes for every performance. Now, think again what she has done this year for promo.
- GMA
- Itunes festival
- The voice
- AMA's
+ The others I'm missing that I'm sure you're aware of.
Now think of the other Promo.
-Itunes banners (world wide)
-Tv Ads world wide (Iv'e seen them)
-Radio Ads World wide (Iv'e heard them)
-Billboard had 4 lady gaga stories on rotation on their main page (that isn't free you know)
- Radio air play slots (Yes, gaga like mosts artists, pays for radiop air play)
-Applause being played in times square
Now think of the other associated costs.
-The cost to produce the album.
-Hiring of the studio
-The producers don't work for free. DJWS Madden + the others have fee's in the hundreds of thousands
- The cost of distributing the album
- The cost of promo tours in other countries
"A massive Hollywood blockbuster movie may spend 25 mill on promo maybe but not a record label that is just silly." - You TOTALLY missed the point I was making with this one. It's not about the $ amount. I could have used any amounts. $25.00 or $100Million. The film industry is the perfect way to accuratly describe a flop. A flop is a product that does not make it's investors the money they spent to make it in the first palce.
The point being made with this was, A flop is a product that does not make back, what it cost to produce.
Gaga's promo IS paid by interscope. You have provided ONE example where sponsors were involved but sponsors pay for things like the venue + alcohol ot the set up + rehersals.
I never once said that the examiner was reliable. I said that the 25million number is probabaly fake but people that say it's a lie are saying so based on no proof or evidence.
"Also your comment about proof and evidence. This is not why it works, I don't have to disprove wild assertions made against me"
You're right, sort of. People can say "I think this is fake blah blah blah" People can't say "THIS IS FAKE" - like it's a universal fact and truth because the fact is, you don't know. Passing of something as fact when it's not is just as bad as what the examiner does.
You seem like a nice person and a very passionate fan and I respect that but you don't need to come on here and make things up about things you don't know when it comes to the business side of music. It's ok that you don't know how it works, no one expects you too. Love the music, love the artist but accept when the media form an opinion based on their opinions and expereince. Remember, the 25million was probabaly wrong but the album was indeed a flop when it came to meeting expectations.
To be really honest, and this might sound harsh but I have no sympathy for gaga fans right now. They're the reason ARTPOP is being called a flop. Spreading lies about it's sucess has only come back to bite them in the butts.
Would ARTPOP really be getting such harsh criticism if they were not bragging about "ARTPOP breaking Madonna's record selling 700,000 copies in pre order" "ARTPOP being the most googled phrase" and countless other things that were not true, that are on these very forums posted months ago before it's release.
I just want to grab ya'll gently by the arm and say "You don't need to lie, it's a good album.. it doesn't matter that it's not record breaking"
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,060
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How someone can pack so much rubbish into one comment is beyond me. My point was that as far as I know the 30mill figure was the cost to produce MJ's album and not just the PR costs alone.
Labels don't necessarily pay for everything. Their job is to fund the recording and distribution of albums. So they don't always pay for PR and I know they don't with Gaga because she does through her company, she's even discussed it in interviews.
So it could easily have been mj's decision and not his labels seeing as he is MJ.
"again, no offence there's no shame in not knowing how this works. I assume you're a teenager"
I am 21 and I know exactly how this works but it's fine I don't find idiotic statements offensive.
BTW was Massively hyped and the Promo was massive as a gaga fan I would know that but seriously ask anyone!
Look at Gaga's promo this era verses Katy Perry's? This 25 mill was all meant to have been spent before the album even came out.
"Gaga does not get paid for performances such as GMA, itunes festival etc etc etc, it's all promo that the artist NEEDS"
Yes she does! As do all celebrities who do these things. Even if she didn't she certainly wouldn't be charged, where are you even getting this?
"and here again is where you are wrong, these perfomances cost GAGA'S TEAM money. Think for a moment.... who pays for"
Ofc it does but we have to remember Gaga has released three/four albums and done many award show performances yet this is the first time it cost her millions of dollars.
Every pop star does this so why are Gaga's costs so massive?
"- Accomodation for gaga AND her team & travel costs" These aren't promo costs but some travel costs will be paid for her like award shows for example
"- staging and production costs " depends
"-props etc " that would generally be gaga's team yes
"- The dancers/band while performing the shows/performances " Again not promo costs and other pop stars can afford dancers
"- The rehersal set up costs " omg!
"- The rate the danacers/band charge for rehersals " That's not how it works at all
"-Costumes" Sometimes she gets them for free, sometimes they are made by the haus and yes sometimes she does buy or hire them! XD
"All of those things are the responsibility of the label to pay and the above goes for every performance"
Not necessarily.
"-Itunes banners (world wide)
-Tv Ads world wide (Iv'e seen them)
-Radio Ads World wide (Iv'e heard them)"
Yes this is actual payed for promo, well done for finally mentioning some but again everyone has these. Gaga didn't have tv and radio ads in every country and it was allot less than the BTW era.
"Billboard had 4 lady gaga stories on rotation on their main page (that isn't free you know)"
Actually they are free, unless you are accusing her of payola? If so then prove it. Interestingly the guy who wrote the Billboard review of artpop denied being paid to write it in one of their podcasts.
"Radio air play slots (Yes, gaga like mosts artists, pays for radiop air play)"
This is again another accusation of Payola but lots of other artists get more radio airplay so why is gaga the one racking up massive costs? How many of your points only apply to Gaga?
"-The cost to produce the album.
-Hiring of the studio
-The producers don't work for free. DJWS Madden + the others have fee's in the hundreds of thousands
- The cost of distributing the album"
These aren't promo costs! Promo as in promotion. Anyway once again every major pop star has these kinds of costs.
"The point being made with this was, A flop is a product that does not make back, what it cost to produce"
The point I was making was that the 25mill figure is ridiculous. I already know what a flop is so that's really not relevant.
"Gaga's promo IS paid by interscope" Um some of it might be I am not sure but allot of it isn't, these things depend on the artist, their contract and various other factors.
"You have provided ONE example where sponsors were involved"
Where sponsors payed for a 3 million dollar even't. It was meant to show you how these things can work but ok.
"but sponsors pay for things like the venue + alcohol ot the set up + rehersals"
yeah Gaga pays for the booze at every gig this is just getting silly now. Anyway when it comes to tours there will be sponsorship's involved of course.
"like it's a universal fact and truth because the fact is, you don't know."
Christopher Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'
I can say it isn't true because there is nothing to suggest that it is true. In fact I do not believe it could possibly be true because of the reasons I gave you.
"you don't need to come on here and make things up about things you don't know when it comes to the business side of music"
Oh dear.
"It's ok that you don't know how it works, no one expects you too."
Yes and the same to you, ofc. It's funny you are saying this considering how much you got wrong.
"Remember, the 25million was probabaly wrong but the album was indeed a flop when it came to meeting expectations. "
You just defined a flop and that was not the definition. I sense that you are not being honest here and that all these niceties are false.
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Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikeymoonshine
How someone can pack so much rubbish into one comment is beyond me. My point was that as far as I know the 30mill figure was the cost to produce MJ's album and not just the PR costs alone.
Labels don't necessarily pay for everything. Their job is to fund the recording and distribution of albums. So they don't always pay for PR and I know they don't with Gaga because she does through her company, she's even discussed it in interviews.
So it could easily have been mj's decision and not his labels seeing as he is MJ.
Oh and its hilarious that you want an official statement for this yet you think it's fine to accept the 25mill figure.
"again, no offence there's no shame in not knowing how this works. I assume you're a teenager"
I am 21 and I know exactly how this works but it's fine I don't find idiotic statements offensive.
BTW was Massivly hyped and the Promo was massive as a gaga fan I would know that but seriously ask anyone!
Look at Gaga's promo this era verses Katy Perry's? Btw this 25 mill was all meant to have been spent before the album even came out.
"Gaga does not get paid for performances such as GMA, itunes festival etc etc etc, it's all promo that the artist NEEDS"
Yes she does! as do all celebrities that do these things. Even if she didn't she certainly wouldn't be charged, where are you even getting this?
"and here again is where you are wrong, these perfomances cost GAGA'S TEAM money. Think for a moment.... who pays for"
Ofc it does but we have to remember Gaga has released three/four albums and done many award show performances yet this is the first time it cost her millions of dollars.
Every pop star does this so why are Gaga's costs so massive?
"- Accomodation for gaga AND her team & travel costs" These aren't promo costs but some travel costs will be paid for her like award shows for example
"- staging and production costs " depends
"-props etc " that would generally be gaga's team yes
"- The dancers/band while performing the shows/performances " Again not promo costs and other pop stars can afford dancers
- The rehersal set up costs " omg!
- The rate the danacers/band charge for rehersals " That's not how it works at all
"-Costumes" Sometimes she gets them for free, sometimes they are made by the haus and yes sometimes she does buy or hire them! XD
"All of those things are the responsibility of the label to pay and the above goes for every performance"
No they aren't the responsibility of the label to pay for.
"-Itunes banners (world wide)
-Tv Ads world wide (Iv'e seen them)
-Radio Ads World wide (Iv'e heard them)"
Yes this is actual payed for promo, well done for finally mentioning some but again everyone has these. Gaga didn't have tv and radio ads in every country and it was allot less than the BTW era.
"Billboard had 4 lady gaga stories on rotation on their main page (that isn't free you know)"
Actually they are free, unless you are accusing her of payola? If so then prove it. Interestingly the guy who wrote the Billboard review of artpop denied being payed to write it in one of their podcasts.
"Radio air play slots (Yes, gaga like mosts artists, pays for radiop air play)"
This is again another accusation of Payola but lots of other artists get more radio airplay so why is gaga the one racking up massive costs? How many of your points only apply to Gaga?
"-The cost to produce the album.
-Hiring of the studio
-The producers don't work for free. DJWS Madden + the others have fee's in the hundreds of thousands
- The cost of distributing the album"
These aren't promo costs! Promo as in promotion. Anyway once again every major pop star has these kinds of costs.
"The point being made with this was, A flop is a product that does not make back, what it cost to produce"
The point I was making was that the 25mill figure is ridiculous. I already know what a flop is so that's really not relevant.
"Gaga's promo IS paid by interscope" Um some of it might be I am not sure but allot of it isn't, these things depend on the artist, their contract and various other factors.
"You have provided ONE example where sponsors were involved"
Where sponcors payed for a 3 million dollar even't. It was meant to show you how these things can work but ok.
"but sponsors pay for things like the venue + alcohol ot the set up + rehersals"
yeah Gaga pays for the booze at every gig this is just getting silly now. Anyway when it comes to tours there will be sponsorships involved of course.
"like it's a universal fact and truth because the fact is, you don't know."
Christopher Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'
I can say it isn't true because there is nothing to suggest that it is true. In fact I do not believe it could possibly be true because of the reasons I gave you.
"you don't need to come on here and make things up about things you don't know when it comes to the business side of music"
Oh dear.
"It's ok that you don't know how it works, no one expects you too."
Yes and the same to you, ofc. It's funny you are saying this considering how much you got wrong.
"Remember, the 25million was probabaly wrong but the album was indeed a flop when it came to meeting expectations. "
You just defined a flop and that was not the definition. I sense that you are not being honest here and that all these niceties are false.
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You seem to be getting offended and as a fan of Madonna's secret project and the messageit conveys that was not my intention at all and I aplogise that you feel that way.
Labels do pay for everything. I'm sorry that you don't want to accept that.
"I am 21 and I know exactly how this works but it's fine I don't find idiotic statements offensive"
- You don't know how it works at all. Clearly.
"So it could easily have been mj's decision and not his labels seeing as he is MJ."
- It wasn't. Big stars are not imune to business decisions by their labels.
"Yes she does! as do all celebrities that do these things. Even if she didn't she certainly wouldn't be charged, where are you even getting this? "
No. She doesn't. No star does. That's like saying Madonna got paid for the superbowl. On occasion they get paid SMALLamounts for doing talk shows. She's NOT charged but there are costs associated with travel, accomodation, paying the dancers/band - it falls on the label.
"Oh and its hilarious that you want an official statement for this yet you think it's fine to accept the 25mill figure."
I don't accept the 25m figure. I was clear about that.
"Ofc it does but we have to remember Gaga has released three/four albums and done many award show performances yet this is the first time it cost her millions of dollars"
I'm sure it's cost her milions in the past too.
"No they aren't the responsibility of the label to pay for. "
Yes they are, otherwise please inform me of who pays for that?
"This is again another accusation of Payola but lots of other artists get more radio airplay so why is gaga the one racking up massive costs? How many of your points only apply to Gaga? "
They apply to every star. I was clear about that, too.
"These aren't promo costs! Promo as in promotion. Anyway once again every major pop star has these kinds of costs"
A flop (you keep saying you know what it is" involves EVERY cost, "FLOP" is the subject matter of the article so it makes logical sense to discuss it.
"The point I was making was that the 25mill figure is ridiculous. I already know what a flop is so that's really not relevant. "
I know. I agreed several times the 25million is incorrect, it is ridiclious. What's irrelevant is you brining up an example i gave which had nothing to do with a $ amount.
"Yes and the same to you, ofc. It's funny you are saying this considering how much you got wrong."
I work in the industry. you're a 21 year old fan of a pop star that reads articles on pro gaga fan sites and think he know's how it works.
"Christopher Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
*Rolls eyes* back on planet earth, You're being silly.
"yeah Gaga pays for the booze at every gig this is just getting silly now. Anyway when it comes to tours there will be sponsorships involved of course"
Umm - The alcohol at ARTrave was provided. There was an open bar for everyone in attendance. - Wow you really don't know about this stuff do you.
Anyways, we can argue about this all day. I don't have a desire to get into the semantics of things you can't possibly know about. It's cute that you think you do though.
My niceties were indeed real, I liked artpop and I have respect for any fan thats as dedicated as you, which is why I was nice. - You were rude back but that's cool, I can take it.
Enjoy your day, if you refuse to learn what I have just educated you on, that's cool by me.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,060
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"Labels do pay for everything. I'm sorry that you don't want to accept that"
But I already gave you an example of promo that was not paid for by Intersope. So I already proved they don't. Can't you see that there may be things paid for in other ways and by other people?
Gaga is even known for paying for her own projects sometimes. Remember when she bankrupted herself after the fame despite having a massively successful album?
" It wasn't. Big stars are not imune to business decisions by their labels"
That really depends on their record deal. Massive well established stars like MJ RIP can actually get away with defying their record labels, and sometimes yes they do make their own decisions.
"No. She doesn't. No star does. That's like saying Madonna got paid for the superbowl"
That was an exception as it's the superbowl and nobody gets paid.
"On occasion they get paid SMALLamounts for doing talk shows. She's NOT charged but there are costs associated with travel, accomodation, paying the dancers/band - it falls on the label. "
Yes this is correct it really depends on the show but my point was they either get paid or they don't get charged.
We have already been over costs. Travel is sometimes payed for her but as I already said all pop stars have travel costs. Why does Gaga's amount to millions?
Dancers and bands are hired by the artist and generally not the label, they are hired on contract for a set amount of time and paid for that. They aren't paid by the hour for specific shows.
Also once again these are not PR related costs. How is this PR?
"I don't accept the 25m figure. I was clear about that"
I was replying as I read and forgot to change it. sorry
"I'm sure it's cost her milions in the past too. " But strangely not 25 mill, what makes this album so much more expensive? Where is all the money going?
"Yes they are, otherwise please inform me of who pays for that?"
It depends. I went over all of those already though, sometimes it's gaga's company, sometimes it's sponsors, sometimes the venue and yes sometimes it is the label but making out like everything is billed to Interscope is silly.
"They apply to every star. I was clear about that, too."
As do most of the costs you have referenced so why did gaga's PR cost 25 mill?
"(you keep saying you know what it is" involves EVERY cost, "FLOP" is the subject matter of the article so it makes logical sense to discuss it. "
So you are changing the subject? As i already said my original comment was to explain why the 25mill figure is silly and makes no sense.
This is what we were discussing and this is what you responded to. You seem to agree so maybe this should have ended already.
"I work in the industry. you're a 21 year old fan of a pop star that reads articles on pro gaga fan sites and think he know's how it works."
Assumptions assumptions. Unless you work for Interscope this is not relevant, You could easily be making that up.
"Umm - The alcohol at ARTrave was provided. There was an open bar for everyone in attendance. - Wow you really don't know about this stuff do you."
You see this comment says it all. We have already discussed how that show was payed for.
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The essays
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This page.
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Angela is just.......
Power
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I was just trying to show why the figure was completely ridiculous and can be dismissed I think I did that despite being an idiot child who needs educating.
But it went on for far to long.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikeymoonshine
"Labels do pay for everything. I'm sorry that you don't want to accept that"
But I already gave you an example of promo that was not paid for by Intersope. So I already proved they don't. Can't you see that there may be things paid for in other ways and by other people?
Gaga is even known for paying for her own projects sometimes. Remember when she bankrupted herself after the fame despite having a massively successful album?
" It wasn't. Big stars are not imune to business decisions by their labels"
That really depends on their record deal. Massive well established stars like MJ RIP can actually get away with defying their record labels, and sometimes yes they do make their own decisions.
"No. She doesn't. No star does. That's like saying Madonna got paid for the superbowl"
That was an exception as it's the superbowl and nobody gets paid.
"On occasion they get paid SMALLamounts for doing talk shows. She's NOT charged but there are costs associated with travel, accomodation, paying the dancers/band - it falls on the label. "
Yes this is correct it really depends on the show but my point was they either get paid or they don't get charged.
We have already been over costs. Travel is sometimes payed for her but as I already said all pop stars have travel costs. Why does Gaga's amount to millions?
Dancers and bands are hired by the artist and generally not the label, they are hired on contract for a set amount of time and paid for that. They aren't paid by the hour for specific shows.
Also once again these are not PR related costs. How is this PR?
"I don't accept the 25m figure. I was clear about that"
I was replying as I read and forgot to change it. sorry
"I'm sure it's cost her milions in the past too. " But strangely not 25 mill, what makes this album so much more expensive? Where is all the money going?
"Yes they are, otherwise please inform me of who pays for that?"
It depends. I went over all of those already though, sometimes it's gaga's company, sometimes it's sponsors, sometimes the venue and yes sometimes it is the label but making out like everything is billed to Interscope is silly.
"They apply to every star. I was clear about that, too."
As do most of the costs you have referenced so why did gaga's PR cost 25 mill?
"(you keep saying you know what it is" involves EVERY cost, "FLOP" is the subject matter of the article so it makes logical sense to discuss it. "
So you are changing the subject? As i already said my original comment was to explain why the 25mill figure is silly and makes no sense.
This is what we were discussing and this is what you responded to. You seem to agree so maybe this should have ended already.
"I work in the industry. you're a 21 year old fan of a pop star that reads articles on pro gaga fan sites and think he know's how it works."
Assumptions assumptions. Unless you work for Interscope this is not relevant, You could easily be making that up.
"Umm - The alcohol at ARTrave was provided. There was an open bar for everyone in attendance. - Wow you really don't know about this stuff do you."
You see this comment says it all. We have already discussed how that show was payed for.
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"But I already gave you an example of promo that was not paid for by Intersope. So I already proved they don't. Can't you see that there may be things paid for in other ways and by other people?"
You gave me, ONE example and the example you provided was paid for by American Express. Of course things can be paid for by other people, the example you provided was a unqie example because AMEX pulled out a last min but decided to honor their commitment and provide the cash anyways... If anything else gaga did that was provided for by SPONSORS they would also be advertised.
"Gaga is even known for paying for her own projects sometimes. Remember when she bankrupted herself after the fame despite having a massively successful album? "
She's not really. In any case, even if gaga did pay for ARTPOP's production that amount would still go towards the cost of making the album vs not making that cost back.....
"That really depends on their record deal. Massive well established stars like MJ RIP can actually get away with defying their record labels, and sometimes yes they do make their own decisions. "
No, you're simply wrong. Do you have any idea how much with inflation that is, today? You also made that fact up, that it was his decision. Please link me to where you read that? You legit, just made that up.
"That was an exception as it's the superbowl and nobody gets paid. "
It's not an exception at all, because nobody gets paid for performing on GMA or Ellen or The itunes festival either. You're 100 percent totally incorrect. Lady gaga is not paid for her promo performances.
"We have already been over costs. Travel is sometimes payed for her but as I already said all pop stars have travel costs. Why does Gaga's amount to millions?"
You're constatly missing the point - Yes, every star does incur these costs, however the point of the entire conversatio is the word "flop" it's about making these costs, back. I'm not sure what you're not understanding.
And if you think you did this without sounding like a child, you're wrong.
You did resort to calling my comments idiotic and you have misunderstood many, many things that have been explained to you.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
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This really didn't need to go on, it's over.
"You gave me, ONE example and the example you provided was paid for by American Express. Of course things can be paid for by other people, the example you provided was a unqie example because AMEX pulled out a last min but decided to honor their commitment and provide the cash anyways... If anything else gaga did that was provided for by SPONSORS they would also be advertised. "
I was responding to a comment when you said Interscope pays for EVERYTHING I also gave you the example of Gaga paying out of her own pocket. Stop twisting what I said and admit that you made a mistake there.
"No, you're simply wrong. Do you have any idea how much with inflation that is, today? You also made that fact up, that it was his decision. Please link me to where you read that? You legit, just made that up. "
About what part? The part where recording contracts can be different depending on the artist?
I actually never said it was a fact that it was MJ's decision I just said that I thought it was the case. However I believe that is a possibility so I argued with you when you claimed it wasn't.
"It's not an exception at all, because nobody gets paid for performing on GMA or Ellen or The itunes festival either. You're 100 percent totally incorrect. Lady gaga is not paid for her promo performances."
Well she will have been for some of them but you are right that she usually isn't or isn't much. My comment was not "100% incorrect" but it was a bit off yes I admit.
However as I said in my original response she certainly does not pay to go on these shows and the costs that comes with it aren't huge and aren't always payed for by her label.
"You're constatly missing the point - Yes, every star does incur these costs, however the point of the entire conversatio is the word "flop" it's about making these costs, back. I'm not sure what you're not understanding."
No! I haven't missed the point I just don't care about your "flop" argumet is why I never commented on it in any of my replies. My response was to explain why it is perfectly reasonable to reject the 25million figure and I have done that.
It doesn't add up as I have demonstrated and there is no evidence. This is why I said this should have ended ages ago because we are arguing about different things.
"And if you think you did this without sounding like a child, you're wrong. "
I fail to see how calling me childish helps you?
"You did resort to calling my comments idiotic and you have misunderstood many, many things that have been explained to you."
Yes and you have been talking down to me from the beginning. I don't care about any of that though I really don't. Sadly you did make some idiotic comments and for someone who claims to work in the industry that is rather confusing but lets just forget about it.
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Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikeymoonshine
This really didn't need to go on, it's over.
"You gave me, ONE example and the example you provided was paid for by American Express. Of course things can be paid for by other people, the example you provided was a unqie example because AMEX pulled out a last min but decided to honor their commitment and provide the cash anyways... If anything else gaga did that was provided for by SPONSORS they would also be advertised. "
I was responding to a comment when you said Interscope pays for EVERYTHING I also gave you the example of Gaga paying out of her own pocket. Stop twisting what I said and admit that you made a mistake there.
"No, you're simply wrong. Do you have any idea how much with inflation that is, today? You also made that fact up, that it was his decision. Please link me to where you read that? You legit, just made that up. "
About what part? The part where recording contracts can be different depending on the artist?
I actually never said it was a fact that it was MJ's decision I just said that I thought it was the case. However I believe that is a possibility so I argued with you when you claimed it wasn't.
"It's not an exception at all, because nobody gets paid for performing on GMA or Ellen or The itunes festival either. You're 100 percent totally incorrect. Lady gaga is not paid for her promo performances."
Well she will have been for some of them but you are right that she usually isn't or isn't much. My comment was not "100% incorrect" but it was a bit off yes I admit.
However as I said in my original response she certainly does not pay to go on these shows and the costs that comes with it aren't huge and aren't always payed for by her label.
"You're constatly missing the point - Yes, every star does incur these costs, however the point of the entire conversatio is the word "flop" it's about making these costs, back. I'm not sure what you're not understanding."
No! I haven't missed the point I just don't care about your "flop" argumet is why I never commented on it in any of my replies. My response was to explain why it is perfectly reasonable to reject the 25million figure and I have done that.
It doesn't add up as I have demonstrated and there is no evidence. This is why I said this should have ended ages ago because we are arguing about different things.
"And if you think you did this without sounding like a child, you're wrong. "
I fail to see how calling me childish helps you?
"You did resort to calling my comments idiotic and you have misunderstood many, many things that have been explained to you."
Yes and you have been talking down to me from the beginning. I don't care about any of that though I really don't. Sadly you did make some idiotic comments and for someone who claims to work in the industry that is rather confusing but lets just forget about it.
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Did you honestly just tell me, it should have ended long ago while asking me questions in your latest response and then proceeding to answer every single one of my replies to you. Be honest, what you meant was, It should have ended with you saying what you want to say" - Well no.
"I was responding to a comment when you said Interscope pays for EVERYTHING I also gave you the example of Gaga paying out of her own pocket. Stop twisting what I said and admit that you made a mistake there"
Hyperbole. google it.
"About what part? The part where recording contracts can be different depending on the artist?
I actually never said it was a fact that it was MJ's decision I just said that I thought it was the case. However I believe that is a possibility so I argued with you when you claimed it wasn't"
About the Michael Jackson deciding part. But thank you, you just confirmed that you THOUGHT that was the case, Meaning it was your own personal opinion. Lets examone that though, why would you think it was his choice? what was your personal opinion based on?
It's time for some truth tea: The only reason you said Michael Jacksons 30M promo budget was chosen by him was so it takes away the logic in a record label spending that much money, making it better for lady gaga.
"My comment was not "100% incorrect" but it was a bit off yes I admit.
However as I said in my original response she certainly does not pay to go on these shows and the costs that comes with it aren't huge and aren't always payed for by her label."
Your comment was incorrect totally. I also never once claim she had to PAY to go on them. I said there are expenses assocaited with it - there are. If those expenses were paid by others, they would be sponsors and it would be advetrtised.
"No! I haven't missed the point I just don't care about your "flop" argumet is why I never commented on it in any of my replies. My response was to explain why it is perfectly reasonable to reject the 25million figure and I have done that"
You should care about my flop arguement, its the subject matter at hand. I believe as per the ATRL guidelines you need to stay on topic. You havn't done that at all. You used MY example of descriving a flop to illustrate a point that I already agree on. LOL - nice work!
"Yes and you have been talking down to me from the beginning. I don't care about any of that though I really don't. Sadly you did make some idiotic comments and for someone who claims to work in the industry that is rather confusing but lets just forget about it"
No, what I have been doing (and nicely) is correcting your mis information. Let me tell you, I have not been wrong once in this discussion. None of my comments have been idiodic and if you were not blinded by your love for a pop star perhaps you'd be able to see that. I'd honestly hope to think you're not this difficult in every aspect of your life.
Now, if you want it to end, you don't have to reply.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,060
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"Did you honestly just tell me, it should have ended long ago while asking me questions in your latest response and then proceeding to answer every single one of my replies to you. Be honest, what you meant was, It should have ended with you saying what you want to say" - Well no."
I said it should have ended because this isn't about what we were talking about to start with.
"Hyperbole. google it. "
More twisting, I have given you examples and there are many other examples out there I am sure Interscope does not pay for everything.
"About the Michael Jackson deciding part. But thank you, you just confirmed that you THOUGHT that was the case, Meaning it was your own personal opinion."
Yes and if you go back and read my original comment that is exactly what I said
"Lets examone that though, why would you think it was his choice? what was your personal opinion based on? "
It's time for some truth tea: The only reason you said Michael Jacksons 30M promo budget was chosen by him was so it takes away the logic in a record label spending that much money, making it better for lady gaga."
No I didn't I said it because someone told me that in a previous discussion. I just thought it seemed more reasonable that he would spend that rather than his record company, they should know what they are doing after all.
"Your comment was incorrect totally. I also never once claim she had to PAY to go on them. I said there are expenses assocaited with it - there are. If those expenses were paid by others, they would be sponsors and it would be advetrtised. "
Well award shows are generally sponsored.
"You should care about my flop arguement, its the subject matter at hand. I believe as per the ATRL guidelines you need to stay on topic. You havn't done that at all. You used MY example of descriving a flop to illustrate a point that I already agree on. LOL - nice work!"
Um, whether or not the 25 mill figure is true or not is on topic plus I was responding to your comment on that figure. Staying on topic does not mean I have to discuss what you want when you want. All my comments were about that.
For the record no I see no reason to suggest that Gaga lost money with this album. I doubt she made anything like she did with her last three but it all seems reasonably ok.
"No, what I have been doing (and nicely) is correcting your mis information."
"Let me tell you, I have not been wrong once in this discussion". Oh come on gurl, lets not push it.
"None of my comments have been idiodic and if you were not blinded by your love for a pop star perhaps you'd be able to see that. I'd honestly hope to think you're not this difficult in every aspect of your life."
Lol, so all that wasn't talking down to me then? it was certainly very aggressive. I like Lady Gaga and I think she is being treated unfairly. That's about the shape of it really of course I am Biased but so is every fan of anyone.
I don't agree with you but so what? Deal with it lol
"Now, if you want it to end, you don't have to reply."
I just don't see much of a point to this but I guess I do keep responding to your garbage so
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally posted by tshirt
The essays
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Yes... Like Lemme grab my popcorn.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 5,156
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Jesus Christ, these long ass comments.
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Member Since: 10/15/2011
Posts: 7,114
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The best thread on ATRL right now.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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The novels.
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Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikeymoonshine
"Did you honestly just tell me, it should have ended long ago while asking me questions in your latest response and then proceeding to answer every single one of my replies to you. Be honest, what you meant was, It should have ended with you saying what you want to say" - Well no."
I said it should have ended because this isn't about what we were talking about to start with.
"Hyperbole. google it. "
More twisting, I have given you examples and there are many other examples out there I am sure Interscope does not pay for everything.
"About the Michael Jackson deciding part. But thank you, you just confirmed that you THOUGHT that was the case, Meaning it was your own personal opinion."
Yes and if you go back and read my original comment that is exactly what I said
"Lets examone that though, why would you think it was his choice? what was your personal opinion based on? "
It's time for some truth tea: The only reason you said Michael Jacksons 30M promo budget was chosen by him was so it takes away the logic in a record label spending that much money, making it better for lady gaga."
No I didn't I said it because someone told me that in a previous discussion. I just thought it seemed more reasonable that he would spend that rather than his record company, they should know what they are doing after all.
"Your comment was incorrect totally. I also never once claim she had to PAY to go on them. I said there are expenses assocaited with it - there are. If those expenses were paid by others, they would be sponsors and it would be advetrtised. "
Well award shows are generally sponsored.
"You should care about my flop arguement, its the subject matter at hand. I believe as per the ATRL guidelines you need to stay on topic. You havn't done that at all. You used MY example of descriving a flop to illustrate a point that I already agree on. LOL - nice work!"
Um, whether or not the 25 mill figure is true or not is on topic plus I was responding to your comment on that figure. Staying on topic does not mean I have to discuss what you want when you want. All my comments were about that.
For the record no I see no reason to suggest that Gaga lost money with this album. I doubt she made anything like she did with her last three but it all seems reasonably ok.
"No, what I have been doing (and nicely) is correcting your mis information."
"Let me tell you, I have not been wrong once in this discussion". Oh come on gurl, lets not push it.
"None of my comments have been idiodic and if you were not blinded by your love for a pop star perhaps you'd be able to see that. I'd honestly hope to think you're not this difficult in every aspect of your life."
Lol, so all that wasn't talking down to me then? it was certainly very aggressive. I like Lady Gaga and I think she is being treated unfairly. That's about the shape of it really of course I am Biased but so is every fan of anyone.
I don't agree with you but so what? Deal with it lol
"Now, if you want it to end, you don't have to reply."
I just don't see much of a point to this but I guess I do keep responding to your garbage so
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Clearly you didn't google hyperbole because your response made no sense.
I'm sorry but on what alternative universe does it seem more reasonable that an artist would pay for their own promo budget? Under no circumstance at Michael Jacksons level, is that a reasonable assertion to make but you can relax, I have the answer for you. - To make up the massive promo budget his label sold the rights to things like "making of's" for his music videos. That's how the label raised the money.
How does it all seem like it's going okay? Given the fact that her Album was extremely discounted from the start some copies on amazon as low as 4 dollars is a really big clue here.
Award shows are sponsored but award shows are not gaga exclusive and she's not paid for performing at them ONTOP of that, the sponsors are advertised (which is exactly what I said)
I wasn't talking down to you, and I wasn't being aggressive. Guess what? - People that have studied and people that have real life experience in the industry know more than you. If you accepted that this was the case and allowed me to teach you something we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead, I'm wasting my time talking to someone who bases everything what they say on their own personal opinion with literally no knowledge of the industry. Lady gaga is not being treated unfairly either, she is being judged based on the standard that she sets herself, and that her fans set herself. If lady gaga had not labeled her album as a reverse warholian expedition that will bring art into pop culture, It wouldn't have been judged as if it were art. Instead, it would be judged as a good pop album, which is what it actually is.
Which brings me to my next point, Everything I post is garbage? My god. You are a typical lady gaga fan, I tried to HELP you by explaining how this works and you refuse to take in that others might know a little more about this than you.
Everything I have posted has been based on factual info and everything you have posted is based on your own theories.
I mean, I even praised your dedication and you're insulting me. You guys will be the death of her career.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,060
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"Clearly you didn't google hyperbole because your response made no sense. "
I know what hyperbole is but it's ok that you didn't understand x
I never claimed he payed for it himself.
"How does it all seem like it's going okay? Given the fact that her Album was extremely discounted from the start some copies on amazon as low as 4 dollars is a really big clue here."
You have been reading these Angela Cheng article's then? Everyone has had discounts from the start even Prism and MMLP2 had similar discounts in some retailers. Artpop was only discounted on Itunes this week compared to others that were age's ago. Discounts don't necessarily indicate flopping they are just ways of making more money.
"Award shows are sponsored but award shows are not gaga exclusive and she's not paid for performing at them ONTOP of that, the sponsors are advertised (which is exactly what I said)"
Yes yes and this is a redundant as the last time you have said it.
"I wasn't talking down to you, and I wasn't being aggressive. Guess what? - People that have studied and people that have real life experience in the industry know more than you."
You don't know anything about me and I don't know anything about you. Besides why do you feel the need to argue from your own supposed authority?
"If you accepted that this was the case and allowed me to teach you something we wouldn't be in this situation."
This is talking down to me as though I was a child. The fact that you cannot see this proves that you have nothing to teach anyone.
" Instead, I'm wasting my time talking to someone who bases everything what they say on their own personal opinion with literally no knowledge of the industry."
Yes yes yes you are all knowledgeable we get it
"Which brings me to my next point, Everything I post is garbage? My god. You are a typical lady gaga fan, I tried to HELP you by explaining how this works and you refuse to take in that others might know a little more about this than you. "
You keep going on about how much you know. What are you trying to prove sis?
"Everything I have posted has been based on factual info and everything you have posted is based on your own theories."
I post one opinion that I stated was an opinion from the start and we get to this. You asserted that interscope pays Billboard to write about her? Where is the evidence for that?
"I mean, I even praised your dedication and you're insulting me. You guys will be the death of her career."
Oh yes what a compliment! I should be grateful right? You were not complimenting me and all your niceties were about as real as Angela Cheng. I really don't care and I am really not insulted I would just prefer the honesty.
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Posts: 26,732
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I just...
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