Originally posted by GeezusHaberdash fair enough. but if that's the case i would say Janet has bigger contributions, not legacy. Legacy imo implies that her contributions continue to the perpetuation of her name throughout history/time, but her name has been effectively erased. Aretha might be "local" but whenever a critic list is made she's at the top. Janet has been starting to trail behind Beyonce in quite a few lists lately... and the whole idea of coming first meaning that u have a bigger legacy is asinine to me. I think someone else said before, James Brown came before Michael and is Michael's blueprint but I'd say MJ has the bigger legacy by far. it's a little too soon to tell how far Beyonce's contributions to music will extend throughout the industry over time but it's already definitely showing and the "Beyonce blueprint" has pretty much been a main staple of the R&B music scene since her debut. Also, New Jack Swing only lasted for like a couple of years, so it's kinda a moot point to make that a part of Janet's long standing legacy.

Originally posted by Lately 1814 James Brown is more of an innovator and pioneer than Michael ever was if we're talking sheer music. Critically, James is far superior to MJ. And it's clear that many of you know nothing about Janet and how important her albums are, and how they continue to shape the sound of music today. Moreover, Janet is the female template that have built the output of both male and female artists of the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. She's four decade deep, and because her template is so efficient, it's only going to be employed in the future by a slew of acts.

ok, but who would agree that James Brown has the bigger legacy?

and Nippy already said what u said in the 2nd paragraph. i know about Janet, I grew up to her and still listen to her music today etc, but as i said earlier, not many others do. How do you have a legacy when it's erased? or it's so muddled that no one directly links you as the source? who in the 2000s is influenced by Janet that hasn't taken from Beyonce as well?

Originally posted by tcweh Trust you? Based on your humiliating performance in your own thread ill do anything but trust you. The Rhythm Nation album influenced Michaels career more than he ever influenced hers. Anyways Have fun living in your fantasy world where Beyonce is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ and no one can touch her "receipts"..Sorry I meant legacy, lol.

The Rhythm Nation album influenced Michaels career more than he ever influenced hers.

Originally posted by Timber Janet would be as popular as you and me if it weren't for Michael. I hope you realize how delusional you sound.

Originally posted by GeezusHaberdash fair enough. but if that's the case i would say Janet has bigger contributions, not legacy. Legacy imo implies that her contributions continue to the perpetuation of her name throughout history/time, but her name has been effectively erased. Aretha might be "local" but whenever a critic list is made she's at the top. Janet has been starting to trail behind Beyonce in quite a few lists lately... and the whole idea of coming first meaning that u have a bigger legacy is asinine to me. I think someone else said before, James Brown came before Michael and is Michael's blueprint but I'd say MJ has the bigger legacy by far. it's a little too soon to tell how far Beyonce's contributions to music will extend throughout the industry over time but it's already definitely showing and the "Beyonce blueprint" has pretty much been a main staple of the R&B music scene since her debut. Also, New Jack Swing only lasted for like a couple of years, so it's kinda a moot point to make that a part of Janet's long standing legacy.

Originally posted by GeezusHaberdash ok, but who would agree that James Brown has the bigger legacy? and Nippy already said what u said in the 2nd paragraph. i know about Janet, I grew up to her and still listen to her music today etc, but as i said earlier, not many others do. How do you have a legacy when it's erased? or it's so muddled that no one directly links you as the source? who in the 2000s is influenced by Janet that hasn't taken from Beyonce as well?

This.

Originally posted by Nippy'sReceipts I never implied that debuting first had something to do with legend status. I said Janet's contributions to music were more significant imo. I see your point about her name being erased. However, I challenge that by saying so was Donna Summer's. Irrelevancy doesn't diminish icon status to me because every artist has their day. New Jack Swing is not a moot point because it's not every day that someone pioneers and carves out a new genre for themselves w/ their music like Janet and Donna both have.

oh yeah, the thing about coming first was more of a general point made to the other posts in here, i should've clarified that.

true, not everyone creates their own genre.

Originally posted by Lately 1814 I, along with plenty others, would agree James has the bigger legacy. Michael is just more popular, so his contributions are magnified. But when you look at the core, James' legacy outweighs Michael's. Okay, so you LISTEN to Janet, but you haven't STUDIED her? There's a big difference. This notion that Janet's legacy has been erased really only exists in Stan Land tbh. Media outlets continue to clock tea even in her absence from the public eye. Her influence matriculates as time goes on, and it resurfaces quite often.

Studied what? This fight has been done a hundred times over. All you're saying now you have already said in all the other threads.

Poetic Justice braids from a movie, though? I thought this was moreso based around the musical contributions (music/album visuals, performance, music innovations) and the resulting acclaim & influence from that?

And no, Janet being erased is not a stan land myth. maybe you're taking "erased" too literal, but for the most part when there are "greatest of" lists and Janet is missing even the stans acknowledge that she would be there if part of her history wasn't covered up the way it has been.

Originally posted by Timber True, it would be better. Ba Bye now.

Legacy is more important when it is easily referenced years after it happens. I feel like the reasons that artists such as The Beatles, Michael, Elvis, Whitney, or Rolling Stones are so legendary is because their work is often referenced and easily accessible. I think their team (or estate) does a creative job of reminding the current and future generations of the artists and their impact on pop culture. Moreover, that allows the said generation to not have to research or study the said artists to know their impact (unless they want to). If anything, they know that they exist and had/have a large impact on culture.

In reference to Janet and Bey, as a huge fan of both, I think that Janet has offered more to pop culture. However, her career is not well documented and her team does not do a good job of referencing her career and past work to the current general public.

Beyoncé, more so than any other artist, does an amazing job of documenting her career and making sure people will remember her work and career high points. Therefore, my vote goes to her.

As music artists and music lovers, they tend to know past artists more than the general public. That is why many of today's artists and lovers are inspired by Janet because they know her.

I love history, so I can name every president of the US, but can the general public name them besides the known ones like George Washingon or Abraham Lincoln. The same applies to music legends who are more universally known.

Originally posted by GeezusHaberdash Studied what? This fight has been done a hundred times over. All you're saying now you have already said in all the other threads. Poetic Justice braids from a movie, though? I thought this was moreso based around the musical contributions (music/album visuals, performance, music innovations) and the resulting acclaim & influence from that? And no, Janet being erased is not a stan land myth. maybe you're taking "erased" too literal, but for the most part when there are "greatest of" lists and Janet is missing even the stans acknowledge that she would be there if part of her history wasn't covered up the way it has been.

Originally posted by ECNEICSNOC Also, I hope the OP and a few other Beyonce stans in here realize how much they're cheapening Beyonce's legacy by reducing her to nothing more than touring reciepts and album sales. A Celine Dion sized mess.

Britney Spears, FattMatt, LanaDelRey, Rei

Originally posted by ECNEICSNOC The contributions to popular music that Janet made during the first 16 years of her musical career (1982-1998) FAR exceed those made by Beyoncé during the first 16 years of her musical career (1997-2013). It's not an opinion, it's not up for debate, and nothing that anyone on ATRL says can change that.