Well I didn't understand then.

I did because the majority of artists that make Urban music are black people (besides Eminem, I don't immediatly think of any white artist that makes this type of music).

But most of the 2000-2002 stuff is more pop.

Pop
Mya - Case Of The Ex is basically more of a dance pop song
Janet Jackson - Pop as you mentioned
Mariah Carey - Thank God I Found You is definitely pop and Loverboy is also basically pop even if it has a funk sample. They even made two versions of that song, one specifically for pop radio, not to mention that Mariah Carey is still seen by a lot of people as more of pop artist overall even now, and she was especially since that way before The Emancipation of Mimi.
Aaliyah - Try Again is more pop than R&B
Macy Gray - A more pop song
Sonique - A dance song
Debelah Morgan - A dance pop song
Samantha Mumba - A dance pop song
Tamia - Basically a dance song with that remix

Not As Pop Per Se, but Definitely Still Strong Poppish Melodies and Sensibilities
Missy Elliot - Work It had a very catchy melodic hook
Eve - Blow Ya Mind obviously was very crossover with Gwen on that song and that melodic hook
Mary J. Blige - Family Affair is honestly more of a pop song than anything, especially for someone like Mary J.

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Perfect Mix of Urban Music with Melodic Sensibilities that aren't necessarily Pop

Alicia Keys - This was obviously an unusual case. But I think what made Fallin' breakout besides being at the right time, was its melody. Hooky enough for pop audiences, but not being desperately or overtly pop. That's a huge thing in why R&B music like this usually doesn't crossover.
Tweet - Another good mix of urban sensibilities and hooks don't' come off as obviously pop

----------------------------------------------------

Songs That Got To The Top 10 due to strong urban/rhytmic airplay
Brandy - Actually kind of an electro song? But still more R&B imo
Erykah Badu - Obviously Bag Lady and Ode To Hip Hop weren't touched at all by pop and got to the top 10 based on the dying singles market and strong airplay.

Unexplainable Anomaly
Ashanti -

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So I think the bottom line is to realize how back then there were more people doing pop, dance-pop, or something that could be seen as close enough to that. People aren't really doing the kind of music in the first group anymore




People aren't really even doing music in the 2nd group either. 2002-2004 especially had lots of songs like Work It, Family Affair, Blow Ya Mind which were urban but definitely had pop hooks.
Think of why urban music dominated that period so heavily, and it's no coincidence that most of those songs had strong melodies/hooks leading urban to literally become the new pop.

The Closest modern examples I can think of lately is Young Wild and Free. And that was a hit right? Adorn too is very melodic, and that's why it's crossing over right now. Girl On Fire is crossing over too. Like I mentioned before, Alicia is melodic and has pop sensibilities.

That's a key thing missing too now. In modern times, with such an emphasis and importance on music being pop, melodic hooks are more important than ever. Yet, for some reason, it's seems to be missing more than ever in urban music now. Until that divide is reconciled, urban music will not crossover readily

Urban radio really has moved much further from pop, whereas ten years ago, a Destiny's Child song wasn't that different from an NYSNC or Christina song. And of course there were people like Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson who could get their pop music played on urban.




Most modern urban music seems to fall closer into the last group to be honest. And this isn't 2002-2004 where songs can flop on pop radio but still sneak into the Top 10 based on strong airplay. First off urban radio doesn't have the strength it used to have. Secondly, Rhythmic and Urban don't align as much anymore. And obviously downloads and streaming aren't high for urban songs/

And Britney had songs about nymphomania and one night stands in the Britney era, she had a video that was basically about an orgy, had a live performance where she caressed a big snake (analogy for big c0ck), a song about masturbation on ITZ that got national attention, kissed a woman on Live TV (in much more homophobic times), etc and more.

Britney was definitely overtly sexual. I mean that's basically one of her two legacies: the personal disasters/dramas/breakdowns and her sexuality.

To call Britney simple the cute girl with a naughty side is such an extreme understatement. If anything I think that would be more like Katy Perry. She's cute and fun but likes to show her naughty flirty side by making her boobs the focus now and then.

Rihanna's image has never been primarily about her sexuality. Her main image is that of an abused woman who ran back to her ex that almost killed her That definitely overshadows her sexuality and it has never been her primary image, whereas with Britney, her sexual image was the forefront until the personal issues started happening.

Even if you think Rihanna's lyrics are more explicit (And Talk That Talk is hardly a sexual song even if that line, which is relatively mild imo), you also have to keep in mind, Britney was doing these things ten years ago, and a lot has changed on whats more socially acceptable since then.

And I don't think Jordin is ambiguous. I think most people would be able to tell she's part black. She's not even ambiguous in a Mariah Carey like way. And how was Jordin's music not as pop as Rihanna's????? Her music overall has always been more pop. Her debut is definitely waaaaay more pop than Good Girl Gone Bad.

And Rihanna had a walflower image before. How do you explain her having Pon De Replay, SOS, Unfaithful, etc being hits? Even most of the GGGB era was walflowerish, so I don't think that's the case at all. She definitely had a clean image back then, and even said that the "Bad" in GGB did not stand for anything sexual at all.

Plus, when Jordin tried to have a harder image, not to mention her most pop single to date (if you mean pop as in dance), with SOS is when she started flopping. But if what you're saying applied, shouldn't Jordin's career have blown up? Obviously that didn't happen. The exact opposite did.

Aaliyah never wrote any songs

I have been saying this for the longest. People have truly revealed their ignorance in plain view in this thread. So many Black female artists have gone the Pop route and are still failing to make a dent in the charts with dance/electro-pop that is just as good or hell even better than that over their Caucasian peers. This is not a genre issue.

Which black female artists are you referring to who have gone dance/electro pop recently and failed?

Yess my two faves!

The ignorance is funny to see.

The side eye....ch...outrage.

In 2003 and 2004 there were some weeks that you could not even find ONE white person in the top10 of the Hot100! I remember when TOXIC peaked at no9, she was the only white person in the top10 that week! There are plenty of examples!

Cause they're usually extremely talented and if you look at Top 40, America's not really looking for talent :/

I know, this thing changes often. There was a time when white artists rarely had a hit, and times when blacks rarely had a hit.

I think we should focus on other things. Like why aren't there many Hispanic or Asian artists having hits? It was very common for a Hispanic artist to have a hit in the late 90s to early 2000s, now extremely rare.

Because the industry limits the ability of non-white females to succeed in pop music, the dominating genre right now. But we mostly knew this already.

Jordin Sparks could sing it perfectly.

It really has nothing to do with race. It's about making the music of the time. This dates back to decades ago. Just a few examples that come to mind:

The state of Janet's career and the release of "Feedback" during the electro/pop trend. Peaked at #19 on the Hot 100 and sold about 850k downloads. Other songs - "Starships" and "Sweet Dreams".

Madonna's career wavering in the 90s. She did an R&B song, "Take A Bow" and it was a #1 song for 7 weeks on the Hot 100. R&B was the dominate genre during the 90s.

The abundance of White artists going disco in the 70s and getting hits - Average White Band, Wild Cherry, KC & The Sunshine Band, etc. There were even Black artists during this time who were successful in their respective genres, but dabbled in disco and got hits - Natalie Cole, Earth Wind & Fire, and Phyllis Hyman.

So as I said, the issue of race will always be under the table in music, but when you follow the trends of music, you have a good chance of stay afloat.

And she wouldn't be dragged by the black community because we don't use her shade anyway.

She too busy getting dick when she could have snatched that record.

There's tons of dance-pop hits sang by black people in the past few years:

SOS
Don't Stop the Music
Disturbia
Only Girl
S&M
We Found Love
Where Have You Been
Starships
Pound the Alarm
Forever
Yeah 3x
Turn Up the Music
Don't Wake Me Up
Closer
Let Me Love You
The Way I Are
DJ Got Us Fallin' in Love
More
Scream
Sexy Chick
Without You
Turn Me On
Low
Right Round
Sugar
Club Can't Handle Me
Good Feeling
Wild Ones
I Cry
Break Your Heart
Dynamite
Smack That
Beautiful
Right Now
Ayo Technology
American Boy
I Gotta Feeling
Meet Me Haflway
Rock That Body
Imma Be (2nd half)
The Time
Just Can't Get Enough (2nd half)
Sweet Dreams
Fire Burning
Sweet Dreams
Replay
In My Head
Ridin' Solo
Don't Wanna Go Home

And that's not even including crossover songs like OMG, Super Bass, and songs by people like LMFAO who are like a quarter black.

David Guetta and Calvin Harris actually prefer to collaborate with black people, since it gets them the extra rhythmic airplay, which white people don't get.

Interesting that most of those are men except nicki and Rihanna

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