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News: GOP politician issues rape challenge to test theory
Member Since: 5/10/2012
Posts: 10,996
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GOP politician issues rape challenge to test theory
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When Indiana GOP Senate candidate Richard Mourdock declared he opposes aborting pregnancies conceived in rape because "it is something that God intended to happen," he came under a lot of fire.
While he's apologized if he offended people for the controversial comment, he has stuck to his guns.
"You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, you can't unring the bell," Mourdock said.
Now, Hustler publisher Larry Flynt is offering $1 million to Mourdock if the Tea Party favorite can prove his statement that “even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
Flynt made the offer via a full page advertisement published in the Indianapolis Star newspaper and the controversial ****ographer said he would "accept for purposes of this reward any verifiable transcript of
your personal conversations with God; letters, email, text messages or videos from God, or messages addressed to you from God transmitted by any third party, including the Republican National Committee or the Romney/Ryan campaign."
Flynt also suggests that divine intervention must have happened for Mourdock to make the statements in the first place.
"I assume that you would not have made this statement unless you had been authorized by God. No one who believes in God would ever use the Almighty's name in vain. That would be blasphemy."
Flynt is only giving Mourdock until 8 p.m., Nov. 5, 2012, to submit the information in order to collect the cash.
So far, Mourdock hasn't responded to the offer.
Trolling conservative politicians is somewhat of a hobby for Flynt, who, during Bill Clinton's 1998 impeachment hearings, offered $1 million for information about politician's sex lives.
The complete ad as it appeared in the paper appears below:
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ref=weird-news
Just a mess.
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Well, where's those e-mails, texts, vidblogs and skype sessions from god Mourdock?
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Posts: 3,155
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I do not like it. I do not like it one little bit. 
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Member Since: 4/2/2012
Posts: 278
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Mourdock was very, very clumsy and offensive in the way he said his point - his point is better said as 'Life is created by God, even if it came from rape'. I disagree that abortion shouldn't be legal in the case of rape, but regardless of how you feel about abortion, fetuses that come from rape aren't any less life than those that don't.
And regardless of how you feel about the Bible, it does state that God forms you in your mother's womb. The Bible would qualify as the word of God if you are Christian (and to a much lesser degree if you are Muslim, since Islam claims it was the word of God but was corrupted), so Mourdock should use that as proof, take the money, and donate it to charity.
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Member Since: 3/20/2012
Posts: 6,167
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Quote:
Originally posted by TN05
Mourdock was very incorrect in the way he said his point, but his point is better said as 'Life is created by God, even if it came from rape'. I disagree that abortion shouldn't be legal in the case of rape, but regardless of how you feel about abortion, fetuses that come from rape aren't any less life than those that don't.
And regardless of how you feel about the Bible, it does state that God forms you in your mother's womb. So if you believe the Bible is the word of God, then that should be proof enough. Mourdock should use that as proof, take the money, and donate it to charity.
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*Murdoch. 
EDIT: Oh, I thought this was about Rupert Murdoch.. 
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Member Since: 6/15/2011
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
Originally posted by TN05
Mourdock was very, very clumsy and offensive in the way he said his point - his point is better said as 'Life is created by God, even if it came from rape'. I disagree that abortion shouldn't be legal in the case of rape, but regardless of how you feel about abortion, fetuses that come from rape aren't any less life than those that don't.
And regardless of how you feel about the Bible, it does state that God forms you in your mother's womb. The Bible would qualify as the word of God if you are Christian (and to a much lesser degree if you are Muslim, since Islam claims it was the word of God but was corrupted), so Mourdock should use that as proof, take the money, and donate it to charity.
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Exactly, which is why I don't understand how people who are against abortion in all cases except rape and incest can't see how contradictory they sound. I'm pro-choice in general, but if your argument for outlawing abortion is that life begins at conception, then a difference shouldn't be made based on how that life was conceived. So it just goes to prove wanting to protect life isn't the real reason behind their opposition.
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Member Since: 4/2/2012
Posts: 278
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonage Daydream
Exactly, which is why I don't understand how people who are against abortion in all cases except rape and incest can't see how contradictory they sound. I'm pro-choice in general, but if your argument for outlawing abortion is that life begins at conception, then a difference shouldn't be made based on how that life was conceived. So it just goes to prove wanting to protect life isn't the real reason behind their opposition.
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For me, as long as the sex is consensual abortion should be off limits, unless the mother's life is in danger or it is incest. I truly am stuck on the rape thing - on one hand, the woman didn't ask for a child and had it forced upon her by a horrible act. Carrying the raper's baby might not be the best. On the other hand, the fetus didn't do anything wrong... So I think abortion is very wrong unless the mother's life is in danger (saving her life is akin to fighting a malignant tumor or something, since the fetus is harming her albeit unintentionally), but should be legal for rape and incest. I hate for it to be legal but there are exceptions. 
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by TN05
For me, as long as the sex is consensual abortion should be off limits, unless the mother's life is in danger or it is incest. I truly am stuck on the rape thing - on one hand, the woman didn't ask for a child and had it forced upon her by a horrible act. Carrying the raper's baby might not be the best. On the other hand, the fetus didn't do anything wrong... So I think abortion is very wrong unless the mother's life is in danger (saving her life is akin to fighting a malignant tumor or something, since the fetus is harming her albeit unintentionally), but should be legal for rape and incest. I hate for it to be legal but there are exceptions. |
But as a male, why should it be up to you? 
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by TN05
Mourdock was very, very clumsy and offensive in the way he said his point - his point is better said as 'Life is created by God, even if it came from rape'. I disagree that abortion shouldn't be legal in the case of rape, but regardless of how you feel about abortion, fetuses that come from rape aren't any less life than those that don't.
And regardless of how you feel about the Bible, it does state that God forms you in your mother's womb. The Bible would qualify as the word of God if you are Christian (and to a much lesser degree if you are Muslim, since Islam claims it was the word of God but was corrupted), so Mourdock should use that as proof, take the money, and donate it to charity.
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The bible isn't proof though. If that was the case, the bible could be used to prove rape is okay, homosexuals are deserving of death and women are to be silenced. 
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Member Since: 6/25/2010
Posts: 18,931
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Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
But as a male, why should it be up to you? |
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Member Since: 6/15/2011
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
Originally posted by TN05
For me, as long as the sex is consensual abortion should be off limits, unless the mother's life is in danger or it is incest. I truly am stuck on the rape thing - on one hand, the woman didn't ask for a child and had it forced upon her by a horrible act. Carrying the raper's baby might not be the best. On the other hand, the fetus didn't do anything wrong... So I think abortion is very wrong unless the mother's life is in danger (saving her life is akin to fighting a malignant tumor or something, since the fetus is harming her albeit unintentionally), but should be legal for rape and incest. I hate for it to be legal but there are exceptions. |
Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
But as a male, why should it be up to you? |
Good question (didn't know that the poster was male, btw).
I don't care how one feels about abortion from a purely personal standpoint, but once you involve the law, I'm not sure how one can claim morality when they want to deprive an entire sex of bodily autonomy, especially when it's a situation they'll never have to face themselves.
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Member Since: 8/19/2006
Posts: 6,475
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Wait, I'm confused... who issued the challenge: the GOP politician or Larry Flynt???
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonage Daydream
Exactly, which is why I don't understand how people who are against abortion in all cases except rape and incest can't see how contradictory they sound. I'm pro-choice in general, but if your argument for outlawing abortion is that life begins at conception, then a difference shouldn't be made based on how that life was conceived. So it just goes to prove wanting to protect life isn't the real reason behind their opposition.
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I don't think they look at it like that.
I think the main argument is that in cases of rape, you had no choice, while with consensual sex, you knew what could happen. Dunno how you explain incest tho.
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I don't think they look at it like that.
I think the main argument is that in cases of rape, you had no choice, while with consensual sex, you knew what could happen. Dunno how you explain incest tho.
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If you look at it that way though, the only logical conclusion is that you should view a child as a punishment. If you believe in life-at-conception hearsay, you should believe abortion shouldn't be legal in ANY situation, the only gray area being the life of a mother.
Of course, assuming you're female. A male should have 0 say or at least influence on this subject.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 7,700
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Well I hope he recorded those ooVoo sessions with God! 
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Member Since: 12/31/2010
Posts: 26,257
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I wouldn't necessarily agree with some individuals' choice to get an abortion, but I also don't think it is anyone else's business besides the mother's. However, I think it needs to be heavily restricted after the first trimester, because that's when it begins to truly develop into a human being.
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
If you look at it that way though, the only logical conclusion is that you should view a child as a punishment. If you believe in life-at-conception hearsay, you should believe abortion shouldn't be legal in ANY situation, the only gray area being the life of a mother.
Of course, assuming you're female. A male should have 0 say or at least influence on this subject.
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I'm sure rape victims do feel a child from rape is a punishment—a sick, constant reminder.
And I disagree. In non-rape situations, the male deserves a say. It IS his child too. It's ridiculous how in certain times, people act like the baby is the mothers and the mothers only. Child support comes around, and now the man's got to pay. Can't have it both ways. That child is equally theirs.
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I'm sure rape victims do feel a child from rape is a punishment—a sick, constant reminder.
And I disagree. In non-rape situations, the male deserves a say. It IS his child too. It's ridiculous how in certain times, people act like the baby is the mothers and the mothers only. Child support comes around, and now the man's got to pay. Can't have it both ways. That child is equally theirs.
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I'm referring to a man choosing what a completely unrelated woman does on the other side of the country.
But in reference to your example, the man does not have to carry the child for 9 months. That's the argument that is usually in question. And I agree. Even the father really shouldn't have a say because it is not his body.
Maybe you can throw a stick in the water if they're married though...
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Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 5,464
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I'm sure rape victims do feel a child from rape is a punishment—a sick, constant reminder.
And I disagree. In non-rape situations, the male deserves a say. It IS his child too. It's ridiculous how in certain times, people act like the baby is the mothers and the mothers only. Child support comes around, and now the man's got to pay. Can't have it both ways. That child is equally theirs.
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The woman is the one giving birth and carrying the child around in her own body for 9 months, she has the final say on want she wants to do with her body. No ifs and buts about it, also, you shouldn't just assume that the woman and man are going to stay together and raise the child. Plus women can work as well you know, we are perfectly capable of supporting ourselves and don't need to depend on some man for our income.
The bible excuse is a ****ing joke. The bible is pretty much viewed differently by every person, and it was written waaaay back in the day, things have changed, if you haven't noticed, this is the 21st century, not 300 AD or something. People need to learn to evolve, if not they'll be left behind, survival of the fittest. Y'all don't wanna be on the wrong side of history do you?
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Member Since: 4/2/2012
Posts: 278
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Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
But as a male, why should it be up to you? |
First off, it's not up to me... It's up to the law to define abortion as what it is, killing. Saying men can't have input on laws that affect women is as stupid as saying women can't have input on laws that affect men. This is society, we all participate. Many women, due to either traumatic abortion experiences from themselves or from friends, have realized why abortion isn't good. 46% more women call themselves 'pro-life' as compared to 44% for 'pro-choice', which is really big for an increasingly liberal generation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...amesh-ponnuru#
The number is right at 50% in overall population.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/154838/pr...ecord-low.aspx
Point is, it isn't men - a plurality of women oppose it too.
Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
The bible isn't proof though. If that was the case, the bible could be used to prove rape is okay, homosexuals are deserving of death and women are to be silenced. |
Old Testament law is the 'Old Covenant', it applied only to ancient Israel. Thus, the laws and practices there are only useful insofar as to find intent or morals, not exact practices or punishments. The 'New Covenant' is in place now, and it applies to all mankind - it isn't a theocracy, BTW.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonage Daydream
Good question (didn't know that the poster was male, btw).
I don't care how one feels about abortion from a purely personal standpoint, but once you involve the law, I'm not sure how one can claim morality when they want to deprive an entire sex of bodily autonomy, especially when it's a situation they'll never have to face themselves.
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It isn't depriving anyone of autonomy - if anything, killing the baby deprives it of autonomy much more than the female would ever be 'deprived'. A women has plenty of options to avoid becoming pregnant. The easiest and most reliable option is to not have sex - if you don't have sex, you can't get pregnant through normal means. Another option is to use protection and/or birth control pills/contraceptives. Finally, one could having their ovaries removed, or only date men who have had a vasectomy.
But killing the baby is really selfish on the woman's part - it isn't the baby's fault that it exists, it is the mother and father's fault.
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