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News: Anti-doping agency VP: Ye Shiwen accusers are "sad"!
Member Since: 8/27/2006
Posts: 4,802
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Good for her 
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Member Since: 12/16/2008
Posts: 59,380
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It may happen but it's suspicious that she swam faster than him 
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 23,567
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Quote:
Originally posted by Albany Guest
Any of the Olympic weight-lifters makes Lochte look like a weakling - doesn't mean if you put them in the water they would win. Its like claiming the car with the biggest engine will always beat a smaller one, which is false.
Lochte might be stronger, but he is also heavier than Ye, and that doesn't even take into account the issue of being able to cut through the water - after all, those old suits they banned didn't make people stronger, they cut water resistance and that made the difference. Differences in technique and shape can make a massive difference in who much resistance someone faces as they try to cut through the water.
This specific line of argument is not that strong at all. That said, given the nature of swimming competetions over the years, it would not surprise me horribly if doping had occured.
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Do any of you even swim?
I can't at everyone talking about technique like Lochte, probably the second-greatest male swimmer of all time, doesn't know about it and acting like the male vs. female divide in elite swimming is irrelevant.
All male world records are ~6 seconds faster in the 100 distances for all four strokes.
In the 200 distances, the closing 100 split difference between males and females ranges from 6 to 8 or more seconds.
In the 400 free, the closing 100 split difference is 7 seconds. In the 400 IM, the difference was 7 seconds. It is now 1.5 seconds, and that's comparing it to Phelps' final leg from the super-suit era that no one, including he, has been close to.
I'm aware that it's possible to approach races differently, and world record splits vary based on strengths and strategy, but this split is truly unusual. It's all the more unusual because all of her splits improved so drastically, but not ridiculously like her freestyle leg. A "believable" miraculous swim would be something along the lines of what Ruta Meilutyte pulled off in the 100M breaststroke.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's unbelievable and unprecedented. And sure, some may see it as rude to question the integrity of someone's victory, but changes to their testing procedures could validate victories in the future and prevent the sport from falling victim to controversy and unfairness like it has in the past.
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 15,801
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
Do any of you even swim?
I can't at everyone talking about technique like Lochte, probably the second-greatest male swimmer of all time, doesn't know about it and acting like the male vs. female divide in elite swimming is irrelevant.
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Member Since: 4/9/2012
Posts: 13,357
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
His overall time was faster. She was faster in the last length.
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Exactly. When people are the most tired.
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Member Since: 4/9/2012
Posts: 13,357
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
Do any of you even swim?
I can't at everyone talking about technique like Lochte, probably the second-greatest male swimmer of all time, doesn't know about it and acting like the male vs. female divide in elite swimming is irrelevant.
All male world records are ~6 seconds faster in the 100 distances for all four strokes.
In the 200 distances, the closing 100 split difference between males and females ranges from 6 to 8 or more seconds.
In the 400 free, the closing 100 split difference is 7 seconds. In the 400 IM, the difference was 7 seconds. It is now 1.5 seconds, and that's comparing it to Phelps' final leg from the super-suit era that no one, including he, has been close to.
I'm aware that it's possible to approach races differently, and world record splits vary based on strengths and strategy, but this split is truly unusual. It's all the more unusual because all of her splits improved so drastically, but not ridiculously like her freestyle leg. A "believable" miraculous swim would be something along the lines of what Ruta Meilutyte pulled off in the 100M breaststroke.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's unbelievable and unprecedented. And sure, some may see it as rude to question the integrity of someone's victory, but changes to their testing procedures could validate victories in the future and prevent the sport from falling victim to controversy and unfairness like it has in the past.
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Exactly
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Member Since: 5/4/2012
Posts: 12,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
Do any of you even swim?
I can't at everyone talking about technique like Lochte, probably the second-greatest male swimmer of all time, doesn't know about it and acting like the male vs. female divide in elite swimming is irrelevant.
All male world records are ~6 seconds faster in the 100 distances for all four strokes.
In the 200 distances, the closing 100 split difference between males and females ranges from 6 to 8 or more seconds.
In the 400 free, the closing 100 split difference is 7 seconds. In the 400 IM, the difference was 7 seconds. It is now 1.5 seconds, and that's comparing it to Phelps' final leg from the super-suit era that no one, including he, has been close to.
I'm aware that it's possible to approach races differently, and world record splits vary based on strengths and strategy, but this split is truly unusual. It's all the more unusual because all of her splits improved so drastically, but not ridiculously like her freestyle leg. A "believable" miraculous swim would be something along the lines of what Ruta Meilutyte pulled off in the 100M breaststroke.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's unbelievable and unprecedented. And sure, some may see it as rude to question the integrity of someone's victory, but changes to their testing procedures could validate victories in the future and prevent the sport from falling victim to controversy and unfairness like it has in the past.
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Cool story bro. Too bad she's been proven clean, sooooo... yeah.
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 23,567
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Smoke
Cool story bro. Too bad she's been proven clean, sooooo... yeah.
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She hasn't been "proven clean." You're not paying enough attention to all of these articles if you think that's true.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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If she was american there would be no doubts.
OMG LOOK HOW AMAZING OUR AMERICAN ATHLETES ARE!!!!!111
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Member Since: 5/4/2012
Posts: 12,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
She hasn't been "proven clean." You're not paying enough attention to all of these articles if you think that's true.
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So I'm assuming you have some info that the ADA doesnt?
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 1,659
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Smoke
So I'm assuming you have some info that the ADA doesnt?
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They keep samples for several years now, so that as anti-doping analyses improve, they can locate banned substances that they weren't able to originally. Therefore it's not necessarily the case that because she's been found innocent now, she can't be declared guilty in the future.
Having said that I'm working on the principle of innocent until proven guilty, so congrats to her. She won another gold medal today - albeit in more believable fashion. 
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 23,567
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Smoke
So I'm assuming you have some info that the ADA doesnt?
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I'm not sure what the ADA has to do with anything?
Coaches are pointing out the fact that drug tests are only carried out upon arrival in the Olympic village, whereas long-term doping programs can be carried out over a period of several months and produce a clean drug test upon arrival at the games.
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
If she was american there would be no doubts.
OMG LOOK HOW AMAZING OUR AMERICAN ATHLETES ARE!!!!!111
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I don't think this is true. That performance was unprecedented and would should have raised suspicions under any circumstances. That said, US anti-doping measures are also much more rigorous as a result of past drug scandals and have resulted in disqualifications in the past, even at the last Olympic Trials in the case of Jessica Hardy.
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Member Since: 10/17/2011
Posts: 1,788
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Quote:
Originally posted by HausOfJabril
Weight-lifters aren't trained swimmers though?  |
And Ye isn't a trained swimmer too? Your argument is based purely on relative strength. My arguement is that oure strength is not the only factor determining speed throught the water - cutting down on resistance is just as crucial.
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Member Since: 10/17/2011
Posts: 1,788
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
Do any of you even swim?
I can't at everyone talking about technique like Lochte, probably the second-greatest male swimmer of all time, doesn't know about it and acting like the male vs. female divide in elite swimming is irrelevant.
All male world records are ~6 seconds faster in the 100 distances for all four strokes.
In the 200 distances, the closing 100 split difference between males and females ranges from 6 to 8 or more seconds.
In the 400 free, the closing 100 split difference is 7 seconds. In the 400 IM, the difference was 7 seconds. It is now 1.5 seconds, and that's comparing it to Phelps' final leg from the super-suit era that no one, including he, has been close to.
I'm aware that it's possible to approach races differently, and world record splits vary based on strengths and strategy, but this split is truly unusual. It's all the more unusual because all of her splits improved so drastically, but not ridiculously like her freestyle leg. A "believable" miraculous swim would be something along the lines of what Ruta Meilutyte pulled off in the 100M breaststroke.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's unbelievable and unprecedented. And sure, some may see it as rude to question the integrity of someone's victory, but changes to their testing procedures could validate victories in the future and prevent the sport from falling victim to controversy and unfairness like it has in the past.
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And yet none of this long post countered anything that I said, which was that speed in the water is not solely based on strength, now did it?
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 4,948
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Good. The ignorance and blatant xenophobia surrounding this issue is pathetic. That American coach and other accusers can continue sounding as butthurt as humanly possible
Quote:
Originally posted by Albany Guest
And yet none of this long post countered anything that I said, which was that speed in the water is not solely based on strength, now did it?
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Clock her.
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 4,948
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
If she was american there would be no doubts.
OMG LOOK HOW AMAZING OUR AMERICAN ATHLETES ARE!!!!!111
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As an American, this post is the sad and obvious truth.
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Member Since: 10/17/2011
Posts: 1,788
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Let me add another thing:
Ye broken the previous world record on the overall course by a 1:02 as compared to Rice in Beijing. At Beijing Rice broke the previous world record by over 1:25 seconds, so beating a world record by over a second is not impossible.
So the great anomaly is just how fast she swam the last 100 meters, the freestyle. So IF she is dopping, and she had simply chosen to use that boost consistently and had kept a pace consistent with beating the world record the whole time, then no one would be questioning her victory like they are now (I don't remember people saying Rice cheated in Beijing).
Wow,if Ye did dope, She is a very stupid cheater.
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Member Since: 9/13/2009
Posts: 22,181
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I can't believe there still such racism, although subtle, even in Olympics. Americans 
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