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Poll: Is Sam Smith Ashamed of being gay?
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View Poll Results: Is he
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Yes, Sam smith is ashamed of being gay and is in denial.
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35 |
23.49% |
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No, Sam smith is not ashamed of being gay
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76 |
51.01% |
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Sam is just doing/saying these things so he can sell records
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56 |
37.58% |
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**** you, I'm busy listening to Justine Skye's "Collide" (available on Itunes)
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4 |
2.68% |
Member Since: 11/5/2007
Posts: 19,997
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No. Because it's not like you have to tell everyone that you are. Being proud of something like sexuality, for me, is just nonsense.
You don't expect the straights to shout "Look at me, I am straight". Well, if we do want equality in terms of sexuality, I don't really see it if such pride is a big deal.
Anyway, he may not be ashamed of being gay, but he is kind of a hypocrite.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
And also kinda erases gayness altogether. Which I think is the point OP is getting at.
He's being smart though. I'd do the same thing to make it big in the beginning. If his goal is marketability (  ) sure. Bleach out any possible gay part of you so you can get the katy perry / one republic demographic. But if your goal is to write a good love song from a gay perspective (  ) you'd make it authentic aka use proper pronouns so we know who you're singing about. |
The songs themselves aren't the only part of his artistic expression though. The 'Leave Your Lover' video has a twist at the end that clearly cements Sam's sexuality as openly gay while still allowing straight people (who, let's face it, are the critical mass) to sing the song from their perspective. And that song actually does make use of the word "him" however considering it's about another lover and not the actual love interest, it would still be a male, regardless of whether or not he's gay or straight.
I actually like that his songs can be sung by men and women, straight and gay alike. It shows that love is love. Gay love is no different than straight love. I don't want a good love song from a gay perspective. I want a good love song from someone who truly knows what I'm feeling like. The first time I got dumped, I was 19 and I listened to 'Someone Like You' on repeat the whole train ride home. It was a 50 minute train ride, and I had a hoodie on. I cried and cried and cried the entire way home. The fact that music did that to me was really powerful. Did it matter that the lyrics were "found a girl and you're married now"? No. I just substituted them to "guy" in my head and it still moved me just as much. That's a truly great love song. Like many of Sam's also already are.
If he wants to write a song like 'Take Me To Church' or 'Same Love' then good on him. He's at liberty to do so. But I kind of like that he's writing so many songs that imply the meaning of 'Same Love' without highlighting the fact that it's about a man, simply for the fact that he's gay and in the public eye, so therefore just automatically know they're about men. He's not writing about "same love" explicitly. He's showing "same love" through his writing. If that makes any sense.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 20,327
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
The songs themselves aren't the only part of his artistic expression though. The 'Leave Your Lover' video has a twist at the end that clearly cements Sam's sexuality as openly gay while still allowing straight people (who, let's face it, are the critical mass) to sing the song from their perspective. And that song actually does make use of the word "him" however considering it's about another lover and not the actual love interest, it would still be a male, regardless of whether or not he's gay or straight.
I actually like that his songs can be sung by men and women, straight and gay alike. It shows that love is love. Gay love is no different than straight love. I don't want a good love song from a gay perspective. I want a good love song from someone who truly knows what I'm feeling like. The first time I got dumped, I was 19 and I listened to 'Someone Like You' on repeat the whole train ride home. It was a 50 minute train ride, and I had a hoodie on. I cried and cried and cried the entire way home. The fact that music did that to me was really powerful. Did it matter that the lyrics were "found a girl and you're married now"? No. I just substituted them to "guy" in my head and it still moved me just as much. That's a truly great love song. Like many of Sam's also already are.
If he wants to write a song like 'Take Me To Church' or 'Same Love' then good on him. He's at liberty to do so. But I kind of like that he's writing so many songs that imply the meaning of 'Same Love' without highlighting the fact that it's about a man, simply for the fact that he's gay and in the public eye, so therefore just automatically know they're about men. He's not writing about "same love" explicitly. He's showing "same love" through his writing. If that makes any sense.
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So basically, as long as it's not gay it's better in your opinion. Ok. You can feel that way.
I'd like to have a really moving song smash on radio that I don't have to substitute a bunch of pronouns in and out of. Feels second rate and phony to me. To each their own!
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Member Since: 12/8/2011
Posts: 2,143
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Idk if he's "ashamed" but the way he goes about making sure he erases every hint of queerness possible from his music definitely does bother me.
Can you imagine if Bruno Mars was like "I don't wanna use the words 'girl', 'she', or 'her' in any of my songs because I want everyone to be able to relate to them!"
It's so ridiculous honestly.
And that comment of his about "making it equal by acting equal" wreaks of internalized homophobia/respectability politics.
I have a lot more respect for a singer like Adam Lambert.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 20,327
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michete
Idk if he's "ashamed" but the way he goes about making sure he erases every hint of queerness possible from his music definitely does bother me.
Can you imagine if Bruno Mars was like "I don't wanna use the words 'girl', 'she', or 'her' in any of my songs because I want everyone to be able to relate to them!"
It's so ridiculous honestly.
And that comment of his about "making it equal by acting equal" wreaks of internalized homophobia/respectability politics.
I have a lot more respect for a singer like Adam Lambert.
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!!
Adam is so sad to think about  He's talented, super good-looking (underneath the freakish makeup) and has that stage presence you'd see in a veteran star. He could've been massively commercially successful but he didn't go the 'bleach every gay piece of me out of existence' route so his career just died.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
So basically, as long as it's not gay it's better in your opinion. Ok. You can feel that way.
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I never said that? What I said was:
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But I kind of like that he's writing so many songs that imply the meaning of 'Same Love' without highlighting the fact that it's about a man
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He's not using pronouns to say "him" and "he" and "my man" etc. But he's openly gay, so everyone knows that he's singing about a man. So when they sing it from their perspectives, whether they're driving in their car, or crying in their bed, or crying on a train ride home after being dumped, they can be like "wow. This guy knows what I'm going through." They then realise that what Sam Smith has experienced is the same love as theirs, without his lyrics being "I'm a gay guy and our love is just as valid as yours."
He's not telling straight people gay love is the same. He's showing them. And that, to me, is far more powerful than lyricism that draws attention to the fact that his love is male/male.
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Member Since: 12/8/2011
Posts: 2,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
!!
Adam is so sad to think about He's talented, super good-looking (underneath the freakish makeup) and has that stage presence you'd see in a veteran star. He could've been massively commercially successful but he didn't go the 'bleach every gay piece of me out of existence' route so his career just died. |
It is sad to think about, but like I said, it does make me respect him a lot more. Adam was proudly gay and dressed exactly how he wanted to, used "he" pronouns in his lyrics, wrote songs specifically about gay experiences, and made out with dudes on live TV in front of middle America. And this was all as far back as 2009, when people were still quite a bit more homophobic then they are today.
He did just sign with a new label though and is supposed to have an album out in the first half of this year so we may be able to see a comeback from him, who knows. Either way it's not as though his first two eras were completely unsuccessful. He did get a top 10 hit, a number one album, pretty decent album sales, and had a successful theater tour (I know this means he's a horrific flop who's probably homeless by ATRL standards but realistically speaking Adam has been quite successful.)
Honestly I feel like Sam Smith could have created something much more interesting and captivating if he had been honest in his songwriting. His album was written about his unrequited love for a straight man, which is a specific experience that so many gay people go through. I would have liked to hear at least a song or two that specifically address that. Instead his album is a bland, sterile collection of songs about nothing.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 56,234
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I think he's doing it for success / career reasons. Sad that he must but he gotta do what he gotta do. Let's be real the kind of people that will be buying his music will mostly be old Christian women so he doesn't want to offend his target demographic.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,506
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No, more like the opposite. He seems to be comfortable with it and saying things LGBT community and so-called sofa "fighters for minor rights" wholeheartly embrace.
It's not anything bad in him singing "general" songs that could be applied to anyone, that anyone can relate to. It makes his audience more broad and helps selling more, simple as that. (It's kinda worrying some of you find them "not gay enough" + wanting him to "express it more" to "represent gay community" and "stand for them". Really, art is not about that, as he said, and celebs are human beings, not megaphones of popular issues. He's doing what he wants, he doesn't owe you anything. Wanna stand by something - go out and stand yourself).
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Member Since: 12/1/2010
Posts: 23,572
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I think Sam is doing what he needs to in order to make himself marketable to a universal audience. Some musicians wear blonde wigs, wear bright contacts, and make pop music to widen their audience...in the case of Sam he wants to remain gender neutral so that it isn't distracting.
I don't fully agree, but then again I'm not a famous singer  If more people can relate to the song then great!
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 651
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But female and male Hetero artists don't make it gender neutral to be universally appealing... Why does using a pronoun make it more or less universally appealing. Stuff like this does irk me tbh.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/8/2014
Posts: 23,320
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Member Since: 12/16/2008
Posts: 59,380
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No, I think his label is holding him back which is messy but kinda understandable.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,321
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gaga came up with born this way dint atrl dragged her for pushing the gay agenda?
why should sam do the same
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 20,050
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And what's wrong with wanting to have universal appeal? He knows what he's doing, stop.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 20,327
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
I never said that? What I said was:
He's not using pronouns to say "him" and "he" and "my man" etc. But he's openly gay, so everyone knows that he's singing about a man. So when they sing it from their perspectives, whether they're driving in their car, or crying in their bed, or crying on a train ride home after being dumped, they can be like "wow. This guy knows what I'm going through." They then realise that what Sam Smith has experienced is the same love as theirs, without his lyrics being "I'm a gay guy and our love is just as valid as yours."
He's not telling straight people gay love is the same. He's showing them. And that, to me, is far more powerful than lyricism that draws attention to the fact that his love is male/male.
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And again, the point of "implying", "substitution", etc. is to take out something people are irrationally hateful about and neutralize it for what purpose? Commerciality.
As it's been pointed out by yourself, Adele's straight love songs are really impactful. Great. So, why does Sam have to make his neutral? It's a weird desexualization that I don't appreciate. You like it. That's fine.
All I'm saying is that it's feels phony and wish there could be one popular gay tagged song that doesn't need me to rewrite the lyrics so it makes sense in my life. But then again, we do have Born This Way
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by ezra
And again, the point of "implying", "substitution", etc. is to take out something people are irrationally hateful about and neutralize it for what purpose? Commerciality.
As it's been pointed out by yourself, Adele's straight love songs are really impactful. Great. So, why does Sam have to make his neutral? It's a weird desexualization that I don't appreciate. You like it. That's fine.
All I'm saying is that it's feels phony and wish there could be one popular gay tagged song that doesn't need me to rewrite the lyrics so it makes sense in my life. But then again, we do have Born This Way |
All of this.
Plus, Rihanna, Gaga, Katy, etc have all made songs where they are clearly referring to women in a sexual way, but Sam can't?
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Member Since: 11/18/2008
Posts: 60,607
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Hmm why does that mean he's ashamed? He's an artist, he needs to sell his music and appeal to both genres. His music is the kind of music people use to dedicate to their significant others. DO you think a man would dedicate a song that talk about love to another guy to his wife/gf?? no boo is called business decisions. I don't think he needs to act like Perez Hilton or Ariana Grande's half brother in order for it to mean he's proud to be gay. 
If he was ashamed he wouldn't be posting pics with him and his bf or ex whatever and would be pretending to be straight and dating women/denyin he's gay.
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Member Since: 4/23/2011
Posts: 16,377
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Quote:
Originally posted by -mUsIcLoVeR-
No. Because it's not like you have to tell everyone that you are. Being proud of something like sexuality, for me, is just nonsense.
You don't expect the straights to shout "Look at me, I am straight". Well, if we do want equality in terms of sexuality, I don't really see it if such pride is a big deal.
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No, you don't have to tell everyone that you are, but he always avoided acknowledging it (until people found his old pictures and social media accounts). That's a sign of shame. Straight people don't avoid talking about things related to their sexuality or change their behavior. Also, no one expects straight people to say "Look at me, I am straight" because being straight is the default so that's such a poor argument. Gay people are not the default.
Quote:
Originally posted by Superbitch
Hmm why does that mean he's ashamed? He's an artist, he needs to sell his music and appeal to both genres. His music is the kind of music people use to dedicate to their significant others. DO you think a man would dedicate a song that talk about love to another guy to his wife/gf?? no boo is called business decisions. I don't think he needs to act like Perez Hilton or Ariana Grande's half brother in order for it to mean he's proud to be gay.
If he was ashamed he wouldn't be posting pics with him and his bf or ex whatever and would be pretending to be straight and dating women/denyin he's gay. |
That's like saying that all people who are ashamed or embarrassed about their ethnicity do whatever they can to avoid people of their own ethnicity. That rare and only extreme cases. There are different levels of shame.
And nobody is saying he needs to act like Perez Hilton or Frankie Grande, but that probably is the way he acts judging from his old pictures.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by zach
I think that everyone should make their songs gender neutral.
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Ugh, no.
Music is allowed to be personal. It's allowed to be intimate. Depriving music of that essential characteristic is meaningless.
Treating genders equally is an immensely positive thing and recognizing that the binary is unrealistic is also positive, but ignoring the existence of gender for mass appeal isn't a good idea. When Whitney sang "How Will I Know," she sang "he" because it's her song and it applied to her life - there was an actual "he" behind the songs.
Sam can do what he wants with his music and lyrics I guess, but changing it actually makes it a lot less relatable for some of us. Where the hell is the prominent gay singer that can actually say "he" in a song without fearing that nobody's going to buy it? That's what a lot of gay men want when they complain about Sam's lyrics. They complain because, rather than society treating him equal as a gay man, people are allowed to ignore his sexuality. It's not that he's gay and they're okay with that - it's that they're not specifically uncomfortable, thanks to the fact that lyrically he could just as easily be talking about a woman. And some people take issue with that.
Personally, I'd rather be able to turn on the radio and hear a song that I can relate to my own life and struggles, rather than hearing something generalized to apply to everyone who ever had a feeling. And while everyone should have that kind of ability to relate to a song, the way to go about it is not making everything totally neutral - it's diversifying lyrics and Top 40 in general.
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