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News: Trans girl wins court case
Member Since: 9/11/2010
Posts: 14,221
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Males have a serious history of violence against women especially, the problem does lie in the male sex. It is not wrong for us to want our own spaces, especially for victims of abuse.
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I hear that. I just don't know how well it could all work. I mean, so many gay men have issues with straight men, but if we create a "gays only" bathroom, we then create a segregation that hurts us in our fight for equality. I like the idea of unisex bathrooms with 2-3 more individual private bathrooms right by them. Then you have the option of using a more open public space, or using more of a private space. I think the latter idea of single private space bathrooms should be mandatory period.
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
I firmly believe that females rights to female only spaces are important and if women dont want to share bathrooms with people socialized as men with penises because they have been abused by them then that is just as important as trans womens rights not to be forced to use the mens toilets.
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No one is going into the stalls with the abused women though. I don't get the big deal, it's not like the trans person is going to show off their genitals to them. If anything they'd be the scared ones and would try their best to pass.
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Member Since: 6/17/2012
Posts: 1,297
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guernica
And males have a serious history of violence against trans females as well, so shouldn't their safety be taken into consideration? Do you know how many trans females have been killed by men? How high the possibility of a trans female being attacked by a male if they went into the men's bathroom would be? But I guess that doesn't matter because they're just a "tranny" and who cares about them right. If we're going to care about the safety of females from men, then we should care about ALL females, and that means ones that were born with the correct female body at birth and those that weren't.
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If you read my posts I'm not saying men arent violent to trans women. I'm not saying trans women should use mens bathrooms at all, I'm advocating for a unisex option. I care about the protection and feelings of both types of women, but its important to distinguish between sex and gender.
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Member Since: 6/17/2012
Posts: 1,297
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
No one is going into the stalls with the abused women though. I don't get the big deal, it's not like the trans person is going to show off their genitals to them. If anything they'd be the scared ones and would try their best to pass.
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Abused women may be scared if they know there are male bodied persons in there, especially if they have been abused by a trans woman. They shouldnt have to sacrifice their comfort for anothers comfort. there needs to be a balance which is where unisex bathrooms come in
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Member Since: 5/7/2012
Posts: 41,067
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Quote:
Originally posted by Яeo.
Here is where I think the transgender issue conflicts:
- Should they identify themselves to a person that they are transgender from the start, or not mention that detail?
Lets say a transgender woman goes to a regular bar. She looks convincingly a woman and meets a guy who is interested in her and can't tell she used to be a man. Should this woman notify the man that she is transgender, or should she not? I mean, they do consider themselves to be fully a woman after all but wouldn't it be unfair for the other person?
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That lies with the individual transgender person themselves. But generally, if they're pre-op (no corrective surgery), they tell a person they're interested in sexually/romantically as soon as possible. If they're post-op (already had corrective surgery) then they can wait to tell them whenever they feel it's appropriate.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by Яeo.
Here is where I think the transgender issue conflicts:
- Should they identify themselves to a person that they are transgender from the start, or not mention that detail?
Lets say a transgender woman goes to a regular bar. She looks convincingly a woman and meets a guy who is interested in her and can't tell she used to be a man. Should this woman notify the man that she is transgender, or should she not? I mean, they do consider themselves to be fully a woman after all but wouldn't it be unfair for the other person?
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Getting intimate with a man and using a bathroom are two different things.
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Member Since: 2/17/2010
Posts: 21,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by RaeseanLohan
Getting intimate with a man and using a bathroom are two different things.
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That's brand new information.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Abused women may be scared if they know there are male bodied persons in there, especially if they have been abused by a trans woman. They shouldnt have to sacrifice their comfort for anothers comfort. there needs to be a balance which is where unisex bathrooms come in
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You do know some males get sexually abused by other males right? And some women sexually abused by other women? So what does that mean for them?
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by Яeo.
That's brand new information.
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You're sure acting like it.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,332
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It's easy to understand both sides of the argument.
It's understandable that a lot of women would be uncomfortable with a trans woman in the bathroom, but I feel like this is tricky because it's not like public restrooms have security guards at the door. Nothing is stopping an aggressive man (or woman) from entering the bathroom to assault someone. So what's the difference if a trans woman goes in and out of the stall for a few minutes?
Unisex bathrooms would obviously make this issue a whole lot easier though.
Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
If you read my posts I'm not saying men arent violent to trans women. I'm not saying trans women should use mens bathrooms at all, I'm advocating for a unisex option. I care about the protection and feelings of both types of women, but its important to distinguish between sex and gender.
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Would you mind explaining?
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Abused women may be scared if they know there are male bodied persons in there, especially if they have been abused by a trans woman. They shouldnt have to sacrifice their comfort for anothers comfort. there needs to be a balance which is where unisex bathrooms come in
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How would the women even know though? And what's wrong with a trans person going into the bathroom they feel most comfortable in?
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by -brian
It's easy to understand both sides of the argument.
It's understandable that a lot of women would be uncomfortable with a trans woman in the bathroom, but I feel like this is tricky because it's not like public restrooms have security guards at the door. Nothing is stopping an aggressive man (or woman) from entering the bathroom to assault someone. So what's the difference if a trans woman goes in and out of the stall for a few minutes?
Unisex bathrooms would obviously make this issue a whole lot easier though.
Would you mind explaining?
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Sex is what you have below, gender is what you choose to identify as.
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Member Since: 11/20/2011
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Males have a serious history of violence against women especially, the problem does lie in the male sex. It is not wrong for us to want our own spaces, especially for victims of abuse.
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What is this fear of being attacked by a transwoman based on, tho? Have there been rampant attacks on cis-gendered women by transwomen in bathrooms and dressing rooms? I'd be willing to bet money that the women who have been attacked by men in public restrooms were attacked by cis-gendered men, not transwomen. It's irrational to fear something based on a statistical outlier or some situation that's probably never occurred. I know when I hear violent stories about transwomen, it's usually violence perpetuated against them, not the other way around.
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Member Since: 3/14/2013
Posts: 19,483
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Quote:
Originally posted by BGKC
What's weird about this case was she identified herself as a female at age 2.
Like.. What? One's not even able to determine their sexual preference at that age. I just find it astounding to know she stuck by it after all these years. It proves a lot.
I also find it strange that the man who sued was the grandfather of a boy who goes to the same school, so IDK why the grandfather would make a fuss about a fifth grader trans using the girls room... Like did he want her to use the boys room like his grandson does or something? Idgi...It boggles my mind. It's great to see her win this case tho, as strange as it is.
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I'm pretty surprised that she identified herself that early. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Planet Mars
Im good with gay rights but I just cant fully understand the plighf of a transgender, its like changing who you are why?
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The thing a lot of transphobics and people who don't understand these issues is this: it's not the biological sex that matters, it's the gender identity. Two separate things. I mean, I'm a male but that doesn't mean my biological sex predetermines that I find females sexually attractive.
It's much more complicated. This whole issue revolves around how society taught us about gender roles. How males and females act, dress and socialize. More importantly, the most common problem that many transgenders face is gender dysmorphia. It's where they feel completely out of place in this world because they weren't born the sex they feel their minds truly are. It's pretty serious since it can lead to depression for some individuals (by cause and effect more than anything)
Quote:
Originally posted by ymcmb
the absolute ignorance in this thread
anyways good for her. trans issues need to be talked about more. also anyone making jokes about this aren't funny and should probably be slapped across the face. it's weird how a lot of gay people don't seem to sympathize or even recognize the issues of trans people.
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Well, transgenders are the minority even among the minority. While gays have been making tremendous social progress in the last few decades, transgenders are still misunderstood. And even among gays, they tend to marginalize issues that don't revolve around them partly because it's EASIER to be gay than transgender. You know who you are and you are more at home in your body than they do.
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Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
There's a slight difference : being black isn't relevant when it comes to what genital organs you use when going to the bathroom.
Yep, I agree.
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It's essentially the same issue when it comes to lack of understanding. While one is a racial issue and the other a gender issue, the fact remains that prejudice occurs out of fear and ignorance.
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Member Since: 11/11/2011
Posts: 6,524
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Males have a serious history of violence against women especially, the problem does lie in the male sex. It is not wrong for us to want our own spaces, especially for victims of abuse.
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Stop generalizing. You're being completely sexist right now. Women can violate men and assault them too. It has nothing to do with the gender. It's the individual.
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Member Since: 8/22/2011
Posts: 5,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by debutante
Forcing women into a private area with people who are likely to attack them is very wrong.
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I empathize with her (the girl in the OP) and with the ruling A LOT, but please, please stop with potentially inflammatory posts like this.
"people who are likely to attack them"
"Likely"? You say this as if 1 of 2 men (it basically is men you are referring to, am I reading that correclty?) a woman would meet in a bathroom are going to attack, assault, rape her whatever.
I'm sorry, but as a straight guy I felt kind of insulted by this comment. Back to reality please.
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Member Since: 9/11/2010
Posts: 14,221
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Quote:
Originally posted by xDiamondx
I'm pretty surprised that she identified herself that early. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that.
The thing a lot of transphobics and people who don't understand these issues is this: it's not the biological sex that matters, it's the gender identity. Two separate things. I mean, I'm a male but that doesn't mean my biological sex predetermines that I find females sexually attractive.
It's much more complicated. This whole issue revolves around how society taught us about gender roles. How males and females act, dress and socialize. More importantly, the most common problem that many transgenders face is gender dysmorphia. It's where they feel completely out of place in this world because they weren't born the sex they feel their minds truly are. It's pretty serious since it can lead to depression for some individuals (by cause and effect more than anything)
Well, transgenders are the minority even among the minority. While gays have been making tremendous social progress in the last few decades, transgenders are still misunderstood. And even among gays, they tend to marginalize issues that don't revolve around them partly because it's EASIER to be gay than transgender. You know who you are and you are more at home in your body than they do.
It's essentially the same issue when it comes to lack of understanding. While one is a racial issue and the other a gender issue, the fact remains that prejudice occurs out of fear and ignorance.
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Great post!
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Member Since: 11/11/2011
Posts: 6,524
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thaye
I empathize with her (the girl in the OP) and with the ruling A LOT, but please, please stop with potentially inflammatory posts like this.
"people who are likely to attack them"
"Likely"? You say this as if 1 of 2 straight men (it basically is straight men you are referring to, am I reading that correclty?) a woman would mean in a bathroom are going to attack, assault, rape her whatever.
I'm sorry, but as a straight guy I felt kind of insulted by this. Back to reality please.
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Exactly how I feel. Some women act like the majority of men are wild animals who can't control themselves. Our gender does not automatically come with a "desire to attack" chromosome so stop acting like that's what it is.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
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Quote:
Originally posted by jagger88788
Exactly how I feel. Some women act like the majority of men are wild animals who can't control themselves. Our gender does not automatically come with a "desire to attack" chromosome so stop acting like that's what it is.
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You can tell you're not a woman
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