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TV Show: Game of Thrones: Season 7 | Teaser released
Member Since: 3/30/2011
Posts: 6,553
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I'm not rooting for Dany but at the same time I don't want anything bad to happen to her dragons 
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
Hated or not, when you can emerge from fires UNBURNT AND WITH THREE DRAGONS, you're destined for a lot more than some guy that needs to be brought back to life by a back-alley witch. The masses always hate the real Messiah.
Also, you can't usurp something that already belonged to you.
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Omg, ruthless but you didn't lie 
Also aren't the targaryens responsible for bringing the seven kingdoms together? It'll always be their throne as long as the kingdoms are under one roof
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 4,353
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iman
Also aren't the targaryens responsible for bringing the seven kingdoms together? It'll always be their throne as long as the kingdoms are under one roof
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I agree with that statement.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,470
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
There's no such thing as the rightful heir. That's the point.
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Boom! There it is, you can have all these laws but they'll mean nothing if someone else comes in and takes the throne... Look at the Starks defeating other houses and ruling the North for more than 8000 years, the Targaryen conquest 300 years before the current events, Robert's Rebellion, The Boltons taking over the North, Jon being crowned King in the North even though the "rightful" heir was right there in the same room, Cersei crowning herself.... Jorah even told Dany...
"Forgive me, Khaleesi, but your ancestor - Aegon the Conqueror - didn't seize six of the kingdoms because they were his right, he had no right to them. He seized them because he could."
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,231
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
There's no such thing as the rightful heir. That's the point.
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Dany or die  , but I agree
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Member Since: 4/23/2012
Posts: 16,691
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Member Since: 4/25/2012
Posts: 11,754
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toxicity.
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Was it legit? One of my friend shared a post about it with a really awesome fan concept art. 
I need to stop highlighting all your grey spoilers and not visit this thread anymore. Y'all are so updated.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 42,704
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
Hated or not, when you can emerge from fires UNBURNT AND WITH THREE DRAGONS, you're destined for a lot more than some guy that needs to be brought back to life by a back-alley witch. The masses always hate the real Messiah.
Also, you can't usurp something that already belonged to you.
I'd also argue that Robert didn't win by right of conquest as the ruling family was a. still alive and b. never conceded the throne/acknowledged the victory. Just because they're not living in the Red Keep, does that mean they're no longer the rightful claimants? And by following your reasoning, who would have been the rightful heir after Robert's death? It makes me think of the riddle that Varys posed to Tyrion about the king, the priest, and the sell-sword and who actually holds the power. Fascinating.
Anyway, Daenerys is the queen, long live House Targaryen.
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Yes LORD
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 8,743
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Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
Hated or not, when you can emerge from fires UNBURNT AND WITH THREE DRAGONS, you're destined for a lot more than some guy that needs to be brought back to life by a back-alley witch. The masses always hate the real Messiah.
Also, you can't usurp something that already belonged to you.
I'd also argue that Robert didn't win by right of conquest as the ruling family was a. still alive and b. never conceded the throne/acknowledged the victory. Just because they're not living in the Red Keep, does that mean they're no longer the rightful claimants? And by following your reasoning, who would have been the rightful heir after Robert's death? It makes me think of the riddle that Varys posed to Tyrion about the king, the priest, and the sell-sword and who actually holds the power. Fascinating.
Anyway, Daenerys is the queen, long live House Targaryen.
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Jon Snow is "some guy" now?  Jon has both Stark and Targaryen blood which makes him a little more than "some guy". There's a possiblity that he's not even a bastard, as he's the son of the crown prince, and if it's proven in the Citadel (or by Bran) that Rhaegar married Lyanna, then Jon will have more claim than Dany. But again, it's really meaningless.
GRRM has made both him and Dany cornerstone characters for a reason. Most likely they will have to work together in some capacity if Westeros is to survive. Maybe as family, maybe as allies.
I don't think this story is about who ends up on the Iron Throne. The Iron Throne is meaningless if the world of men falls. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up destroyed or the last thing standing while all the characters we rooted for have died.
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 6,189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toxicity.
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It's one of those things that fans have actually been speculating for a while, so it feels a bit too convenient that it's actually happening. I'd love it to be true though 
Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
Hated or not, when you can emerge from fires UNBURNT AND WITH THREE DRAGONS, you're destined for a lot more than some guy that needs to be brought back to life by a back-alley witch. The masses always hate the real Messiah.
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This reminds me of "back-alley abortions" 
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Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
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Is Daenerys really barren? Because if she is, her saying she's "going to break the wheel" is interesting. The only thing she'd be breaking is the Targaryen bloodline.
Maybe the Targaryens aren't meant to survive this. Jon is written like a martyr.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,389
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I'm so hyped for this season UGH I'M READY
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,231
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
Is Daenerys really barren? Because if she is, her saying she's "going to break the wheel" is interesting. The only thing she'd be breaking is the Targaryen bloodline.
Maybe the Targaryens aren't meant to survive this. Jon is written like a martyr.
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I guess you can make a case for it based on what I bolded:
Quote:
"When will he be as he was?" Dany demanded.
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
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However, I think this was Mirri Maz Duur's way of saying Drogo will never return from his vegetative state.
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Member Since: 3/4/2011
Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
Jon Snow is "some guy" now? Jon has both Stark and Targaryen blood which makes him a little more than "some guy". There's a possiblity that he's not even a bastard, as he's the son of the crown prince, and if it's proven in the Citadel (or by Bran) that Rhaegar married Lyanna, then Jon will have more claim than Dany. But again, it's really meaningless.
GRRM has made both him and Dany cornerstone characters for a reason. Most likely they will have to work together in some capacity if Westeros is to survive. Maybe as family, maybe as allies.
I don't think this story is about who ends up on the Iron Throne. The Iron Throne is meaningless if the world of men falls. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up destroyed or the last thing standing while all the characters we rooted for have died. |
His claim is shaky AT BEST as compared to her's given what we know for certain about him & Dany at this particular point in time.
I agree to a certain extent that the main point of the story is not who will end up on the IT, however, the struggle for power and ruling is clearly at the centre of the saga. In the show at least, more than in the books. The book series is named A Song of Ice and Fire (alluding to the fantasy aspect) while the show opted for the name Game of Thrones (clearly highlighting the importance of the politics & struggle for power). I don't think this is happenstance.
Lineage and birthrights aside, she is also the more appropriate choice for leader. She inspires loyalty, she stands up for the downtrodden and she surrounds herself with advisors who compensate for her shortcomings, thus turning herself from a scared little girl into a fierce, powerful queen. And she has ****ing dragons.
The other guy couldn't command a troupe of like 70 men in an isolated location and context without getting himself murdered. He then eschewed his responsibilities due to a technicality and charged headfirst into a battle he would have died in AGAIN had his half-sister not secured the backup of the Vale after her moron half-brother completely undermined her and ignored her advice. After which, he was given all the glory to then be crowned King in the North by an 8 year old girl.
I mean, if he came back to life, he must have some sort of role to play but when you compre him and Daenerys side by side, I don't see how a pragmatic person could opt for him over her. 
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Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
His claim is shaky AT BEST as compared to her's given what we know for certain about him & Dany at this particular point in time.
I agree to a certain extent that the main point of the story is not who will end up on the IT, however, the struggle for power and ruling is clearly at the centre of the saga. In the show at least, more than in the books. The book series is named A Song of Ice and Fire (alluding to the fantasy aspect) while the show opted for the name Game of Thrones (clearly highlighting the importance of the politics & struggle for power). I don't think this is happenstance.
Lineage and birthrights aside, she is also the more appropriate choice for leader. She inspires loyalty, she stands up for the downtrodden and she surrounds herself with advisors who compensate for her shortcomings, thus turning herself from a scared little girl into a fierce, powerful queen. And she has ****ing dragons.
The other guy couldn't command a troupe of like 70 men in an isolated location and context without getting himself murdered. He then eschewed his responsibilities due to a technicality and charged headfirst into a battle he would have died in AGAIN had his half-sister not secured the backup of the Vale after her moron half-brother completely undermined her and ignored her advice. After which, he was given all the glory to then be crowned King in the North by an 8 year old girl.
I mean, if he came back to life, he must have some sort of role to play but when you compre him and Daenerys side by side, I don't see how a pragmatic person could opt for him over her. |
He has more than 70 men now, his sister didn't give him any advice, she basically left him to die to secure her own safety, (all the Northern houses did) that's why she apologised and they asked for forgiveness lmao and he didn't die. That was the whole point of that episode. Every arrow missed him, every swing of every sword, every horserider charging at him. He's been betrayed twice and twice he overcame it. Either it's luck or it's destiny.
But apart from all that, he also inspires loyalty. He's been elected as a leader several times now. Clearly that's what he's meant for. He's as good a person as Dany, and he's more level headed than she is. She'd go for execution while he'd go for banishment. Both choices have repurcussions (as we've seen), but my point is, he has something, she has something, they're equal.
As for her dragons... Okay...? Bran can literally turn into Drogon, so im not sure it's saying much. Magic is a part of the world.
Im rooting for both, not sure how it'll work, but it can. Though something tell me it won't end so happily for Jon because he's a warrior and Dany is not.
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Member Since: 3/4/2011
Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
He has more than 70 men now, his sister didn't give him any advice, she basically left him to die to secure her own safety, (all the Northern houses did) that's why she apologised and they asked for forgiveness lmao and he didn't die. That was the whole point of that episode. Every arrow missed him, every swing of every sword, every horserider charging at him. He's been betrayed twice and twice he overcame it. Either it's luck or it's destiny.
But apart from all that, he also inspires loyalty. He's been elected as a leader several times now. Clearly that's what he's meant for. He's as good a person as Dany, and he's more level headed than she is. She'd go for execution while he'd go for banishment. Both choices have repurcussions (as we've seen), but my point is, he has something, she has something, they're equal.
As for her dragons... Okay...? Bran can literally turn into Drogon, so im not sure it's saying much. Magic is a part of the world.
Im rooting for both, not sure how it'll work, but it can. Though something tell me it won't end so happily for Jon because he's a warrior and Dany is not.
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Sansa didn't leave him to die, she was right there with him the whole time because she had the assurance that Littlefinger would come in and save the day after Jon inevitably led them into a hopeless battle. She didn't betray him, she saved him. Well, she saved herself, which in that instance also meant saving him.
I'm personally not convinced that everything is peaches and cream with those two. Sansa has come too far just to allow herself to be second-fiddle to her bastard half-brother/cousin/whatever he is.
As for inspiring loyalty, I fundamentally disagree. He was elected twice. His election to Lord Commander was practically coercive. His election/ascension as King in the North was based on a. a battle he didn't win and b. contrary to rights of succession as Bran is still living and outranks him.
I don't find him level-headed, I find him extremely stubborn and short-sighted. He never addressed the very valid misgivings of the Night's Watch when he proposed allowing the wildlings to pass the Wall. He wasn't able to diffuse the dissension in the ranks and ultimately prevent himself from being murdered. He's not an effective ruler because he's not able to put aside his beliefs to come to a compromise and forge ahead. What's more is that he does not surround himself with advisors that force him to see the other facets of an issue. Yes, he's steadfast, but what does not bend, breaks. Despite all his talk about the importance of banding together to face the common enemy, he is stuck in his own notions of right and wrong and that has been and will continue to be his downfall.
Daenerys may be brash but she is just and she listens to criticism and adjusts her plans of action accordingly. When that old man wanted to sell himself back into slavery because his life was better, she was completely against it. But when she heard his reasoning, she ended up consenting while adding a few stipulations re. length of time and pay that effectively made it an employment contract rather than slavery. In other words, a compromise. Moreover, she appointed Tyrion as HotQ who makes up for her diplomatic shortfalls and heeds his advice in political affairs. Her instinct may be to execute, but she listens to her advisors i/o doing whatever it is she originally wanted.
That's my tuppence anyway.
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
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Oh wow @ Patri in here speaking the truth 
And I 100% agree. So many people think Jon will be a better ruler than dany even though she has proven to be better than him and has way more resources. He's supposed to be dead anyway and he's still a bastard so dany still out ranks him.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,523
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
He then eschewed his responsibilities due to a technicality and charged headfirst into a battle he would have died in AGAIN had his half-sister not secured the backup of the Vale after her moron half-brother completely undermined her and ignored her advice. After which, he was given all the glory to then be crowned King in the North by an 8 year old girl.
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SHDBWEHJBWJKDFJKDN
I am ****ing SCREAMING.
I'm still so angry, I really hope Sansa kills him this season.
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Member Since: 2/1/2010
Posts: 20,340
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