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Discussion: Your thoughts on the "Ground Zero Mosque"
Member Since: 2/6/2010
Posts: 27,892
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Originally posted by TC
Maybe it's the responsibility of "news" outlets to provide accurate information and put things in proper context, instead of trying to make people afraid and mad about things that aren't actually bad and don't really affect them? |
And, ONCE AGAIN, this is pinpointed unfairly to the Fox News network.
Of course.
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Member Since: 5/4/2010
Posts: 2,598
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
same to inconsiderate people like yourself  |
Yeah, I'm so inconsiderate that I think people have the right to freely practice their religion even though I'm an atheist. I apologise unreservedly for caring about the rights of my fellow human beings...
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Quote:
Originally posted by StarryEyed
Yeah, I'm so inconsiderate that I think people have the right to freely practice their religion even though I'm an atheist. I apologise unreservedly for caring about the rights of my fellow human beings...
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and I apologize for sympathizing with people who have dealt with death and grief for the past 9 years.
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Member Since: 5/4/2010
Posts: 2,598
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
and I apologize for sympathizing with people who have dealt with death and grief for the past 9 years.
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You mean like everyone does? And by the way if you're interested 9/11 families agree with me that it's not offensive to them and by insinuating it is you're making yourself seem more and more disgustingly prejudiced
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_...9.2F11_victims
Of course it's impossible to sympathise with more than one group at once  It's 1am where I am and I need some sleep but tomorrow I will have no problem with pointing out your bigotry
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Member Since: 9/28/2009
Posts: 9,353
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
The Japan analogy does make sense...a majority of Japanese people did not agree with what the government was doing, that doesn't make all Japanese bad. So if it were the same situation and I was against, I would obviously be called racist.
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No...the Japanese nation attacked the American nation. No nation attacked America on 9/11. It was a radical terrorist group. Now, is it the radical terrorist group that is building this cultural centre? No.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissTina
70% of Americans my ass.. Out of what? 100 people polled? |
Exactly. I can't stand when people try to pull up statistics like they're counting what an entire population said.
Why wasn't I included in this study?
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Member Since: 10/28/2008
Posts: 22,771
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I don't have a problem with this. With all of the opposition, it's fast becoming a propagation of a mass snob directed towards Islam.
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Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,465
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discostickk23, you have to realize that it isn't always "us against them". Many of the 3000 killed on 9/11 were Muslim. Many of the first responders that rushed to the site, saving lives, were Muslim. You shouldn't generalize the entire religion of Islam because of what terrorists did.
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Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedGaga
 Sarah Palin is stupid period. She thinks she can see Russia from her house |
The lady that can see Russia from her house, is saying that the mosque is "steps away".. She must eat a lot of carrots. 
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissTina
discostickk23, you have to realize that it isn't always "us against them". Many of the 3000 killed on 9/11 were Muslim. Many of the first responders that rushed to the site, saving lives, were Muslim. You shouldn't generalize the entire religion of Islam because of what terrorists did.
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Not all Japanese were Kamikazes either. Is it okay to put Japanese Cultural Centers next to Pearl Harbor and other famous battle sites where thousands of Americans died?
It's all matter of respect and that is all. Back in the day during WWII, all Japanese in the US were sent to internment camps. It may have been a bad experience for them, but many cooperated and understood Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Surely, most of them had no involvement with it whatsoever, but they still made that sacrifice and they did gain respect from Americans, even after the attacks.
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Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
Not all Japanese were Kamikazes either. Is it okay to put Japanese Cultural Centers next to Pearl Harbor and other famous battle sites where thousands of Americans died?
It's all matter of respect and that is all. Back in the day during WWII, all Japanese in the US were sent to internment camps. It may have been a bad experience for them, but many cooperated and understood Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Surely, most of them had no involvement with it whatsoever, but they still made that sacrifice and they did gain respect from Americans, even after the attacks.
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Shame. To say that those that support the building of this Mosque don't have respect for those that died on 9/11 is highly offensive/disrespectful. 
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Member Since: 11/13/2009
Posts: 25,902
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissTina
The lady that can see Russia from her house, is saying that the mosque is "steps away".. She must eat a lot of carrots.
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I doubt it. Her glasses are like iconic now. 
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Member Since: 9/28/2009
Posts: 9,353
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
Not all Japanese were Kamikazes either. Is it okay to put Japanese Cultural Centers next to Pearl Harbor and other famous battle sites where thousands of Americans died?
It's all matter of respect and that is all. Back in the day during WWII, all Japanese in the US were sent to internment camps. It may have been a bad experience for them, but many cooperated and understood Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Surely, most of them had no involvement with it whatsoever, but they still made that sacrifice and they did gain respect from Americans, even after the attacks.
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SERIOUSLY, GIVE UP THE JAPAN ANALOGY. It is NOT the same at all.
The Japanese Empire ATTACKED the USA. Tell me, what nation, empire, or state attacked the USA on 9/11? NONE. It was a terrorist group. Is the terrorist group building the cultural centre? NO. So why is there a problem if these people have ZERO connection to 9/11?
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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It really isn't much different whether it was a nation or terrorist group. A majority of the Japanese during WWII had no involvement or support for the attacks and the Kamikaze, and you can say the same about the Muslims. Lets not forget that a large number of Muslims in the middle east who had no involvement with the terrorist groups were celebrating the deaths of people on 9/11. There are plenty of videos people dancing, cheering, celebrating, and burning the American flag.
The ones who have no respect for 9/11 families are the people who are set on building the Mosque at that exact location. If they really showed consideration and sympathy, they would simply relocate. But no, it is completely necessary that they build it there and nowhere else.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 9/26/2001
Posts: 22,475
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
The Muslims are not the victims. Nobody considers the THOUSANDS of people who died that day. Its really like it's nothing. Can you please tell why they refuse to change the location? There are so many vacant properties all over Manhattan...If they had any respect or consideration for the ACTUAL victims, they would simply change the location of the center.
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Fine. Then let's move ALL religion out of the area. Let's make it completely religion-free, because if we're banning one religion from being in that area, then it's completely and utterly unfair to let everyone else practice while they can't.
Look, if they move the center because the "majority" of people want it moved, what's preventing that same "majority" from getting it moved further away after it picks another location? Then further? Then further more? What would prevent the "majority" from getting the mosque moved out of NYC? Or out of the ****ing state, even? You want to talk about facts? Here's one: This country was formed because the founding fathers lacked religious freedom in England. This country was FOUNDED on the basis of freedoms: Speech, religion, etc. By telling these people to move their mosque, all we're doing is neglecting the basic criteria of our founding fathers. Do you think George Washington would be telling people that "life isn't always fair and politically correct"? No, because George Washington believed that everyone had a right to believe in what they wanted to believe in, however they wanted to believe it.
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and I apologize for sympathizing with people who have dealt with death and grief for the past 9 years.
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AND WE ****ING DON'T?! My ****ing god, throughout this entire thread, you have acted as if you're the only person that is allowed to grieve for those lost during 9/11. ****ing YANKEE04 was within the vicinity of the WTC when the towers crumbled, and he has absolutely no problem with this because it is the right of all people to have freedom of religion, regardless of where that freedom is being showcased. I was watching the towers fall as it happened. I was devastated by the whole ordeal and felt for the victims. I still feel for the families of victims and can't imagine what they are going through every day. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to overlook our basic principles to make a few people (and it's a few. A few hundred thousand people is not even close to 1% of our entire population. Hell, it's not even 5% of the population of NYC!) feel better about themselves.
And, really, it's not your choice. That's what you don't understand. It's not YOUR mouth that can tell the Muslim population that they can't worship there. The people who can tell them not to worship at that spot are not preventing it, because they realize that telling someone that they can't worship somewhere, no matter the religion, is wrong and, more importantly, is unconstitutional.
I understand that you feel very strongly about this, and that you feel bad for the victims of 9/11, and that in and of itself is admirable, but I'd feel worse about telling someone that they can't practice what they believe in because a couple hundred thousand people feel uncomfortable about it.
Feel free to have the last word, because I'm not responding to this thread again. It has made my head hurt.
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Member Since: 7/21/2007
Posts: 17,522
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Quote:
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Your thoughts on the "Ground Zero" Mosque
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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okay i'm done here...but i've made my point and none of you agree or get it, but thats okay. That is what opinions are. Even if a few hundred thousand voted in the polls, it is still a good representation of people's opinions throughout the entire country.
I have a reason to sympathize with victims as well. I only live half an hour from the city and was even able to see smoke from the towers falling. NOt only that, but I know a few people who have lost family members in the towers. I know a girl who lost her father when she was only 8 years old and it still bothers me to this day. Personally knowing these victims, I can't change my views or opinions on these situations. I know that this Mosque will be upsetting to these victims. As a proud American, I am not going to side with the ones who are crying about religious freedom, I am going to side with the people who have lost loved ones and suffered for the past 9 years. I've personally seen and heard their opinions about this, and they have influenced me to feel the same.
I know many people can't face it, but LIFE ISN'T FAIR. Sometimes people in society must make sacrifices and changes and they won't always be fair, but that's life and there's nothing you can do about it. If you knew anything about the guy in charge of this, then maybe you would understand. The one who says the Hamas is not a terrorist organization. Its sickening. But I just wanted to let you all know that I will continue to stand by my opinion. I will respect yours and hope that you will respect mine.
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Member Since: 10/10/2009
Posts: 10,662
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
okay i'm done here...but i've made my point and none of you agree or get it, but thats okay. That is what opinions are. Even if a few hundred thousand voted in the polls, it is still a good representation of people's opinions throughout the entire country.
I have a reason to sympathize with victims as well. I only live half an hour from the city and was even able to see smoke from the towers falling. NOt only that, but I know a few people who have lost family members in the towers. I know a girl who lost her father when she was only 8 years old and it still bothers me to this day. Personally knowing these victims, I can't change my views or opinions on these situations. I know that this Mosque will be upsetting to these victims. As a proud American, I am not going to side with the ones who are crying about religious freedom, I am going to side with the people who have lost loved ones and suffered for the past 9 years. I've personally seen and heard their opinions about this, and they have influenced me to feel the same.
I know many people can't face it, but LIFE ISN'T FAIR. Sometimes people in society must make sacrifices and changes and they won't always be fair, but that's life and there's nothing you can do about it. If you knew anything about the guy in charge of this, then maybe you would understand. The one who says the Hamas is not a terrorist organization. Its sickening. But I just wanted to let you all know that I will continue to stand by my opinion. I will respect yours and hope that you will respect mine.
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FACT: The public is ALWAYS on the wrong side of important issues that have to do with freedom, civil rights, or just generally not being hateful and IGNORANT
Abolishing lavery
Women's right to vote
Interracial marriage
Desegregating Schools
and eventually, Gay Marriage.
NEW FLASH, the public overwhelmingly opposed all of these issues, so you can feel free to be proud of being on the ignorant side of the currrent mosque debate.
Some people, actually most people have to unfortunately be forcibly detached from their ignorance by reality refusing to accomodate their simple perspective. For some, education is just not enough. Oh well, we tried 
And for the last time, 911 was committed by crazed terrorits, NOT by Islam. NO connection.
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Member Since: 9/28/2009
Posts: 9,353
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So to sum it up you think American Muslims should be punished for the acts of foreign terrorists? Would you have a problem if Christians wanted to build a church on the property?
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Member Since: 5/4/2010
Posts: 2,598
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LOL Discostickk23 got destroyed on this thread 
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