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News: Muslim boat migrants threw christians off the boat
Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 997
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Kavish and Tropez might be my fav members here. so eloquent, smart, and open-minded!
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Originally posted by qa3bool
The most populated Muslim country is Indonesia. Do you ever hear any of these extremism acts there?! No, and the reason is because they don't have an agenda and politics are not involved in it. It's POLITICS.
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ummm have you heard of FPI? Bali bomb? jw marriott bomb? jamaah islamiyah? how muslim organisations violently stopping permitted, peaceful lgbt meetings? how the outbound converts will be scrutinised and alienated? pkspiyungan? you know nothing boo. it's just the media here is muslim biased so it never spreads out.
and Pecinta Mariah, i know you are a fellow indonesian so i really hope you are not cosigning this paragraph when you quoted that.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
^ it makes zero sense to blame the quraan because a group of degenerates (terrorists) misinterpret its content.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coklek92
Nope. Quran did nothing wrong. Just like I said before, those people misinterpreted the contents of Quran. That's why I recommended you to find someone expert to make you understand more about Quran. Don't you ever think the way you understand the Quran exactly the same like those people? Sorry if I'm little bit offensive but what have been written in Quran can't be directly translated and understand as simple as that. That's why I hope you please find someone who is very good in translating the whole content of Quran. If you are confusing in some parts, please ask the person to explain it briefly. And please stop spreading negative words before you get best explanation regarding to the Quran  |
I said that I know that those verses stem from ancient battles and are relevant to a specific era. But my whole point of discussion is that Muslim terrorists use the Quran to justify their actions whether they misinterpret it or not. The whole of Quran is a historical book and if it is still preached today, you are bound to have extremists acting upon them. The misinterpretation excuse seems vague when they believe that it is the word of God and they don't take it as their history. You have chosen to abide by its peaceful historical parts, they have chosen to abide by its violent and absurd historical parts. Bottom line, if the Quran didn't have these codes, there would have been less violence today.
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Member Since: 12/9/2009
Posts: 13,069
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The ignorance in here 
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Member Since: 2/26/2012
Posts: 23,655
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfaire
Kavish and Tropez might be my fav members here. so eloquent, smart, and open-minded!
ummm have you heard of FPI? Bali bomb? jw marriott bomb? jamaah islamiyah? how muslim organisations violently stopping permitted, peaceful lgbt meetings? how the outbound converts will be scrutinised and alienated? pkspiyungan? you know nothing boo. it's just the media here is muslim biased so it never spreads out.
and Pecinta Mariah, i know you are a fellow indonesian so i really hope you are not cosigning this paragraph when you quoted that.
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yeah I heard about them but they are not majority here and cannot be a representation of Islam in Indonesia. How can you neglect the biggest Islam organization like NU, Muhammadiyah etc...? and I'm sure there are also so many Islamic groups that help other people in other countries... funny people only nitpicking the extremist ones to judge Islam while neglecting the other groups
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Member Since: 3/11/2011
Posts: 2,095
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
You cannot say that politics is the only cause when we've seen religious agenda in most of those attacks. Why would Muslims taint the name of Islam for their government? Doesn't this bring us back to the thought that parts of the Quran reflect these actions in the first place? Most verses from religious books have a historical event attached with them, I agree, but isn't the Quran a book of guidance? These events were narrated for us to know how to act upon such situations, not just mere story telling. You cannot say that the absurd verses of the Quran only hold historical significance, then turn to peaceful verses and say that Islam is peaceful. You have to look at the whole package. The peaceful parts stem from historical instances too, and you are looking at them as the 'way to live', but why ignore the teachings of the bad parts? As I said earlier, good-hearted Muslims like to nitpick the good from the bad parts of the Quran to make Islam appear good. But Islam is not good when most of those inhumane terrorists acts are done because of that book. Let's agree on this that those verses are dated and no longer relevant in this modern age. Then why do a lot of Islamic countries still treat women less than men, still stone women for not bleeding on their wedding nights, still has death as penalty for apostasy? Is a religion of peace supposed to suppress will and freedom this much? The whole of Quran is dated and barbaric, and as long as it is considered the book of that religion, terrorists will continue to use it as their laissez-faire and think they are doing God's job.
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It really is useless having an intelligent discussion with someone who cannot seperate between a book of guidance and, misinterpretation and actions of a human being!
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Member Since: 2/8/2014
Posts: 9,232
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
I said that I know that those verses stem from ancient battles and are relevant to a specific era. But my whole point of discussion is that Muslim terrorists use the Quran to justify their actions whether they misinterpret it or not. The whole of Quran is a historical book and if it is still preached today, you are bound to have extremists acting upon them. The misinterpretation excuse seems vague when they believe that it is the word of God and they don't take it as their history. You have chosen to abide by its peaceful historical parts, they have chosen to abide by its violence and absurdity. Bottom line, if the Quran didn't have these codes, there would have been less violence today.
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I know what are you trying to point. But your perception doesn't make sense. For example, it just like you blaming the science for all those weapons creation but the truth is science is good and harmless. People actually make it looks bad. The same thing with Quran, it's harmless but those people make it look bad by claiming it was the word of Allah.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pecinta Mariah
yeah I heard about them, but how can you neglect the biggest Islam organization like NU, Muhammadiyah etc...? funny people only nitpicking the extremist ones to judge Islam while neglecting the other groups
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i dont neglect it. no. but to say that we have no or even less extremism is utter ignorance. thats my point. i know some of you guys are really kind, like you for instance. but really you moderate and liberal muslims need to start de-radicalising your religious teaching to stop this kind of extremism from growing up. thats all i'm asking for.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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I will be gone for the weekend, therefore I won't be here to respond to those who will quote me. I just want to apologize if I offended any Muslim. I am not anti Islam, but anti religion. I do feel for those who are under the Islamic tension and hope they find peace and freedom someday. If I have been so adamant on 'attacking' the Quran, it was not to shed a negative light on the book. I am aware of its peaceful and holy way of life teachings. What I was alluding to is the Muslim terrorists who take the bloodshed verses as something they can do today. Yes, they are misinterpreting them, but there wouldn't have been room for misinterpretation if those didn't exist in the first place. I do blame the Quran when Muslim terrorists use it as an excuse because it does backup for their actions - whether you think it is misinterpretation or not. I have grown up in a Muslim community and I know the fear and reluctance under which they are living. They truly have no choice than to abide by the Quran. My Muslim friend once told me that if the penalty for apostasy wasn't death, she would have left it long ago. As a girl, she feels deprived of so many things and I truly feel sorry for Muslim women. I don't think humans should come to Earth with rules of how to live. I believe in freedom, and that's something I don't see good-hearted Muslims being able to have completely. I do wish happiness to all Muslims, because I know it is hard to be one. Have a nice weekend.
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Member Since: 2/26/2012
Posts: 23,655
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these are the verses that I believe in that sometimes those extremists forget to learn/comprehend
(60:8)
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Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
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(60:9)
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Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
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Member Since: 2/8/2014
Posts: 9,232
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
I will be gone for the weekend, therefore I won't be here to respond to those who will quote me. I just want to apologize if I offended any Muslim. I am not anti Islam, but anti religion. I do feel for those who are under the Islamic tension and hope they find peace and freedom someday. If I have been so adamant on 'attacking' the Quran, it was not to shed a negative light on the book. I am aware of its peaceful and holy way of life teachings. What I was alluding to is the Muslim terrorists who take the bloodshed verses as something they can do today. Yes, they are misinterpreting them, but there wouldn't have been room for misinterpretation if those didn't exist in the first place. I do blame the Quran when Muslim terrorists use it as an excuse because it does backup for their actions - whether you think it is misinterpretation or not. I have grown up in a Muslim community and I know the fear and reluctance under which they are living. They truly have no choice than to abide by the Quran. My Muslim friend once told me that if the penalty for apostasy wasn't death, she would have left it long ago. As a girl, she feels deprived of so many things and I truly feel sorry for Muslim women. I don't think humans should come to Earth with rules of how to live. I believe in freedom, and that's something I don't see good-hearted Muslims being able to have completely. I do wish happiness to all Muslims, because I know it is hard to be one. Have a nice weekend.
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It's okay dude. Honestly I impressed that you have studied a lot on Islam. Yeah, maybe you get confused with some parts (me too) but I always refer to someone who has ample knowledge to give better explanations. Anyway, nice talk
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coklek92
I know what are you trying to point. But your perception doesn't make sense. For example, it just like you blaming the science for all those weapons creation but the truth is science is good and harmless. People actually make it looks bad. The same thing with Quran, it's harmless but those people make it look bad by claiming it was the word of Allah.
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This is a false analogy, science does not give people directives.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pecinta Mariah
these are the verses that I believe in that sometimes those extremists forget to learn/comprehend
(60:8)
(60:9)
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Again, why is their interpretation the "wrong" one? B/c it conflicts with modern day values?
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Member Since: 6/15/2010
Posts: 14,318
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
You have chosen to abide by its peaceful historical parts, they have chosen to abide by its violent and absurd historical parts. Bottom line, if the Quran didn't have these codes, there would have been less violence today.
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The vast majority of its peaceful teachings aren't bound by historical context, they are absolute.
There are also violent teachings that aren't bound by time, like the stance against gays. I understand if someone criticize Islam from that angle since I struggle with it myself, but I don't understand this one.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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The audacity of people trying to escape war/terror/poverty and then end up killing other people in the same position. We're all just human beings trying to survive, why make it harder? I hope they return to where they came from because I don't see any country wanting to welcome murderers. 
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
The vast majority of its peaceful teachings aren't bound by historical context, they are absolute.
There are also violent teachings that aren't bound by time, like the stance against gays. I understand if someone criticize Islam from that angle since I struggle with it myself, but I don't understand this one.
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The peaceful ones are "absolute", but the bad (which are only considered bad in this day and age") are bounded by history? Again, picking and choosing. Truth of the matter is, many Muslim today take things that were said in historical context and apply to their day to day lives now. They also literally believe many of things that happened which for all we know could be parables.
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Member Since: 6/15/2010
Posts: 14,318
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
The peaceful ones are "absolute", but the bad (which are only considered bad in this day and age") are bounded by history? Again, picking and choosing.
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I don't think you read the second half of my comment? 
I said there are violent teachings that aren't bound by time.
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Member Since: 6/24/2011
Posts: 2,617
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Muslims are all ****, let's kill them all blah blah blah.
Why are all the teenage white boys in here acting like they know what they're talking about
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Member Since: 2/8/2014
Posts: 9,232
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
The peaceful ones are "absolute", but the bad (which are only considered bad in this day and age") are bounded by history? Again, picking and choosing. Truth of the matter is, many Muslim today take things that were said in historical context and apply to their day to day lives now. They also literally believe many of things that happened which for all we know could be parables.
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That's why we have ijtima' (discussion of all the experts around the world) so they can share their opinion and update what is the best for Muslims regarding to the current issues. And just want to inform you, instead of Quran we also you used " hadith" as our guidelines
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Member Since: 2/26/2012
Posts: 23,655
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Again, why is their interpretation the "wrong" one? B/c it conflicts with modern day values?
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because they think it's a shortcut to heaven, they call it Jihad
The Meaning of Jihad is often misunderstood by people who do not know the principles of the Islamic religion. The term for war is qital, not Jihad.
Jihad in the form of war executed when there is something endangering the existence of Islam.
The basic meaning of jihad is "struggling" but that does not mean "a physical war ".
Indeed, in Islam allows the follower to war in the name of Allah, but in this case there are rules for that:
1.They must inform the enemy so that both parties can prepare for the incoming
2. You could not attack women, children, old people, and innocent people who were not involved in the war
3. No destroying public facilities
When are they allowed to fight?
ie if Muslims are in a state of the colonized, meaning if you are not attacked, then you are not allowed to attack first
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Member Since: 2/8/2014
Posts: 9,232
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Quote:
Originally posted by getinthezone
Muslims are all ****, let's kill them all blah blah blah.
Why are all the teenage white boys in here acting like they know what they're talking about
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It's shameful. Don't be so rude.
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