The Westboro babtist church represents everything that Christianity stands against
They really don't, though. If you read the Bible, it tells you that the Christian God is a very jealous God, a very spiteful God, and a God that does not like when his followers betray him. The people of the WBC are over the top and quite abnormal, but they're preaching what God says. If you sin, you are going to Hell. If you allow a sin to happen, God will punish you. Just because you want to believe in this "God loves everyone" fairytale because you think it makes you seem like a good person, doesn't mean that the people of the WBC are wrong. People think that God is a unicorn who sits up in the clouds and showers us all with love and sprinkles, but he's not. The WBC is showing people the vicious side of God and that challenges their image of what God is, so they think they're crazy and condemn them.
Some major women-hating passages are from Corinthians and Timothy:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
1 Timothy 2:11-14
“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
And there are more.
Please don't make assumptions. I wouldn't make posts if I didn't know what I was talking about.
The first part is not woman-hating. It's about woman preaching to the congregations, not literally about talking.
The second part is in reference to Adam and Eve - it was Eve who was deceived and that was part of the punishment that was given to (both men and) women.
Quote:
15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
They really don't, though. If you read the Bible, it tells you that the Christian God is a very jealous God, a very spiteful God, and a God that does not like when his followers betray him. The people of the WBC are over the top and quite abnormal, but they're preaching what God says. If you sin, you are going to Hell. If you allow a sin to happen, God will punish you. Just because you want to believe in this "God loves everyone" fairytale because you think it makes you seem like a good person, doesn't mean that the people of the WBC are wrong. People think that God is a unicorn who sits up in the clouds and showers us all with love and sprinkles, but he's not. The WBC is showing people the vicious side of God and that challenges their image of what God is, so they think they're crazy and condemn them.
First of all if you sin you are NOT
going to hell. There is something called repentance. People who repent of their sins are forgiven if they are truly sorry for what they have done.
Secondly the fact that god loves everyone unconditionally doesn't mean that he never bestows punishment to us for the bad things that we do. But that doesn't make him vicious. Are your parents vicious or hateful for reprimanding you when you do something bad??
People who write off Christianity often use extreme examples to show why it is so "hateful" or "intolerant" but I am here to tell you that not every Christian is judgmental, hateful, intolerant person. It's actually quite the opposite. Just open your heart and mind to the idea that there are good people who practice the gospel and don't judge you for every mistake that you make
Yet many Christians still use Leviticus (as well as other passages from the New Testament, see: Romans) as an excuse for hating gays. In general, I think it's true to say that Christians have taken and run with certain parts of Leviticus (again with the picking and choosing).
Sometimes we're talking about different people here. I'm a Catholic, and that's what i'm basing what i'm saying, in the Catholic Church. That's a different type of religion of most Christians in the US and UK. We use the same book, but we have very different teachings. You won't see or hear a priest or bishop preaching the same way as a pastor.
If God doesn't exist or doesn't have power to establish absolute for his creations, from where do you draw your morals? How do you know what is right and wrong? Who says what goes or doesn't?
Apparently the people who wrote the "ancient" and "hateful" text of the past time managed to tell you what's right and wrong in the 21st century.
They really don't, though. If you read the Bible, it tells you that the Christian God is a very jealous God, a very spiteful God, and a God that does not like when his followers betray him. The people of the WBC are over the top and quite abnormal, but they're preaching what God says. If you sin, you are going to Hell. If you allow a sin to happen, God will punish you. Just because you want to believe in this "God loves everyone" fairytale because you think it makes you seem like a good person, doesn't mean that the people of the WBC are wrong. People think that God is a unicorn who sits up in the clouds and showers us all with love and sprinkles, but he's not. The WBC is showing people the vicious side of God and that challenges their image of what God is, so they think they're crazy and condemn them.
I am a Christian and I believe in God but I sometimes do not believe in the Church. Most of their teachings are dumb and is contradicting what Christianity was before.
The bible was written by people, it wasnt dropped down on a cloud and isnt 100% accurate and literal. The old testament was written thousands of years ago, when homosexual acts were looked at as a perversion, they didnt know things that we know now.
Jesus only ever taught love and respect for everyone, even enemies.
And those saying that all Christians are bigots, well thats pretty bigoted of you.
I'm just going to quote what I posted in another thread:
The scriptures and texts used by Christianity are hateful. There is absolutely no going around that. If you identify as Christian, you associate yourselves with those texts, even if you don't believe in them. But I don't know why you'd practice a religion when you don't believe in half of its scriptures, anyway.
Again, it's none of my business. Believe whatever you want to believe. Just don't force your beliefs down my throat, and I won't force mine down yours.
I'm a Unitarian Universalist (and an atheist), but I know many more liberal/tolerant Christians.
What it comes down to is how you interpret the bible. It's totally logical/rational to recognize that the Bible, while inspired by God, was WRITTEN by men, and has been translated and rewritten over centuries. Many parts of the Bible (Leviticus) can be interpreted as law codes that do not apply to today's modern world. They were relevant when the Bible is written, but they just don't really fit now. I see the Bible as an extremely important piece of literature, and Jesus as a good man who lived an exemplary life of charity and compassion, though I don't believe he is the son of God, because I do not believe there is a God.
I do however, completely respect someone's belief in God. I do not respect intolerance though, whether it is inspired by faith or not.
The bible was written by people, it wasnt dropped down on a cloud and isnt 100% accurate and literal. The old testament was written thousands of years ago, when homosexual acts were looked at as a perversion, they didnt know things that we know now.
Jesus only ever taught love and respect for everyone, even enemies.
And those saying that all Christians are bigots, well thats pretty bigoted of you.
But that isn't proof. Eyewitness accounts of Jesus historically are only from christian writings, which is ironic because the Gospel of Peter which was deemed unreliable and not included in the bible described the gospels (where the death and resurrection are located) completely different.
Not to mention there has been a lot of "eyewitness" accounts for religious figures that incorporate the death and resurrection predating Jesus entirely (Krishna, Dionysus, Attis of Phrygia, Horus, Osiris etc.)
So no, not proof he existed.
Museums, foundations, literature and all other kinds of records of the Holocaust are financed and maintained by Jewish people wanting to ensure nothing like that happens ever again. Their vested interest in the matter makes their record-keeping better, not worse. You have four unanimously accepted and recognised biographies of a man in the 1st century AD, written within a generation of his death. That is unprecedented in antiquity. The fact that these men vehemently believed in his teachings and were willing to (and did) suffer gruesome deaths for it testifies to the fact. They mention various eyewitnesses by name, including various opponents who were still around to act as a corrective if they were inventing. Neither the Roman nor Jewish authorities question the existence of Jesus - why should you?
Furthermore, the Biblical account of Jesus life is further corroborated by the exactitude with which other historical details are accurate, which have only recently come to light. Pontius Pilate who was thought to be a fiction for years, Lysanias as tetrarch, Aretas in Damascus, accurate representation of the thigh priesthood and sanhedrin, the list goes on. Furthermore, the accuracy of naming in the New Testament is startling, being corroborated by the archaeological record as 100% spot on. Jewish names in Alexandria, Asia Minor and Rome a century afterward were vastly different to the ones we find in 1st century Palestine/the New Testament, testifying further to the accuracy of the record.
Ancient biographies were always written with something in mind - a moral or lesson to be learnt. The fact that we have such an insane amount of literature early on about this Jesus of Nazareth testifies to the enormous impact of his ministry and his historical existence as a rabbi who taught and healed in that exact place at that exact time.
The death and resurrection of Jesus are understood and take place in a Jewish context, as the fulfilment of ancient Jewish prophecies and ritual sacrifice. It has nothing to do with pagan nature/fertility gods whose story represent the passing of the seasons or harvest or whatever. There is zero proof for any of their existence as historical personages, unlike Jesus of Nazareth.
(Unless you went to a christian school where this isn't taught.)
Social contract theory is a construct to explain the state. It's not an actual historic event that happened at a certain date. All kinds of governments have existed, advocating all kinds of crazy - from state sponsored pederasty in Ancient Greece, to Nazi Germany. It is not because a certain people at a certain time agree on 'x' or 'y' being acceptable to their society, that 'x' or 'y' become spiritually correct or sinful.
Life lessons. Just because I believe that I should treat others how I want to be treated doesn't mean I am Christian. Everybody knows the idea of religion heavily shaped the world we are in today. However, Christianity just doesnt make sense in the world today.
Life lessons are subjective, they offer no absolutes. Have you never looked back on a situation with a completely different opinion? Different personalities and cultural backgrounds means any specific situations can "teach" any kind of lessons.
A bit like how a federation needs some kind of constitution that regional/state laws are held up to, humans have need of absolutes to compass their existence.
In what way doesn't Christianity make sense?
Quote:
Originally posted by (Cole)
We've spent the last 5 pages explaining the Bible's hypocrisy ("GOD LOVES ALL!!" ... "KILL THE GAYS... RAPE THE WOMEN, SO THEN YOU GET TO MARRY THEM!!!") as well as the hypocrisy of practicing a "non-hateful Christianity."
This is overkill. It's almost like you're asking the same questions over and over again because you're hoping for a different answer (which won't come).
I've already debunked the rape issue, it was a mis-quote of a text taken out of context - raped women were spared and the rapist executed.
Homosexual activity was instrinsically linked in that culture and time period with pagan ritual prositution. Even so, male prostitution at pagan shrines was a problem for the Jews for much of their history.
God loves everybody, doesn't mean he loves every thing you do. He is still a sovereign God, a Holy God who can't abide with our sin, and is under no obligation to do what *we* consider correct. You're only living and breathing by his mercy, how can you demand or command anything frm Him? That makes no sense.
I'm still waiting for an actual reason why Christian can't be non-hateful.
Are you implying that one must follow the words of a religion in order to establish a path of right and wrong?
I know that raping people is wrong because I wouldn't want to be raped.
I know that murdering people is wrong because I wouldn't want to be murdered.
I know that I should treat others with respect because I want to be treated with respect
Biblical hypocrisies go without saying. On one end, you have people like the WBC telling you that if you're gay, you're going to Hell. On the other end, you have pastors telling you that it's okay to be gay. Both are Christians, yet one is telling me I'm going to Hell and the other is telling me it's okay? Isn't Christianity one religion with a very defined set of rules and morals one should follow? Why are people all over the place if God made it clear what he likes and what he doesn't?
I'm not implying, I'm outright stating that.
Just because somene says they are a Christian, doesn't mean they are. A Christian is a follower of Christ who does and lives as He taught, not someone who simply believes. People like WBC believe but they're so consumed with hate they're obviously complete devoid of any relatinship with God. On the other side of the spectrum yu have liberals and folks who compromise and just want to be your friend, so they leave out pieces they're uncomfortable with or might alienate any potential membership.
Ultimately, both deny Christ by their actions and erroneous teaching. Their dumbassedry does not in any way affect whether or not God exists, His character, His sovereignty, or anything like that.
Christians are all over the place because imperfect humans are all over the place. That doesn't mean Christianity itself is all over the place.
This goes both ways. Even if the Bible contained just one hateful passage, it would contradict and invalidate Jesus' so-called message of universal love and acceptance.
Universal love =/= universal acceptance.
Where did Jesus say he accepted any and every thing?
Well Jesus himself never did anything hateful and any follower of the bible knows that we are supposed to try and live in his image.
He was wise, tolerant, loving, kind
and always helped those who were truly in need. How people can speak against this man is just beyond me
Jesus was loving, but he was not tolerant. See for example his discourses with/against the Pharisees, his overturning the tables in the Temple court, etc.
Yet many Christians still use Leviticus (as well as other passages from the New Testament, see: Romans) as an excuse for hating gays. In general, I think it's true to say that Christians have taken and run with certain parts of Leviticus (again with the picking and choosing).
Part of that isn't as arbitrary as it may seem, it has to do with Jesus fulfilling Levitictus etc and bringing in a new convenant with humanity. That said, you have a lot of crazies - in the US especially, no offense - who pick out randm lines and use it to justify whatever prejudices and bigotry they've got going on.