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Discussion: What's your stance on...? #46: Organ Donation
Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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ATRL Moderator
Member Since: 3/18/2009
Posts: 35,164
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1. Abortion is not murder. Stop referring to it as such.
2. Wouldn't it be nice if every child who needed to be adopted could be adopted? Unfortunately, that's simply not the case. Abortion is the only realistic option for many women.
3. Being pro-choice does not mean you agree with the practice of abortion, it just means you support a woman's right to have one. I feel like, as humans, we need to support each other's right to have control over our own lives (this qualifies for something such as gay marriage as well).
4. I find it especially disturbing that most of the posters in this thread who are vehemently pro-life are men. Again, you do not have to agree that abortions are "right," but it is not your choice.
5. If we outlaw abortion, this will not stop the practice. This will just force women to have dangerous illegal abortions again, much like they did for centuries before Roe v. Wade. This is not a solution. And neither is forcing women to carry unwanted babies to full term.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/24/2001
Posts: 5,400
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brooke-lynn
Could you imagine a sexless world? 
I also hate it's up to woman to prevent pregnancy, I think every man should get a vasectomy!! J/K but there needs to be a level of responsibility on the man's part too. |
She shouldn't be allowed to deny that child life. She can give it away for adoption, but once thiat baby exists, even at conception, it is a living thing. To end its life abruptly is murder, no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
We're not going to agree on this, I've stated my opinion so I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead. 
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Member Since: 11/24/2006
Posts: 24,963
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Member Since: 10/3/2010
Posts: 50,276
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Quote:
Originally posted by supaspaz
1. Abortion is not murder. Stop referring to it as such.
2. Wouldn't it be nice if every child who needed to be adopted could be adopted? Unfortunately, that's simply not the case. Abortion is the only realistic option for many women.
3. Being pro-choice does not mean you agree with the practice of abortion, it just means you support a woman's right to have one. I feel like, as humans, we need to support each other's right to have control over our own lives (this qualifies for something such as gay marriage as well).
4. I find it especially disturbing that most of the posters in this thread who are vehemently pro-life are men. Again, you do not have to agree that abortions are "right," but it is not your choice.
5. If we outlaw abortion, this will not stop the practice. This will just force women to have dangerous illegal abortions again, much like they did for centuries before Roe v. Wade. This is not a solution. And neither is forcing women to carry unwanted babies to full term.
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1. Abortion is death of an innocent life.
2. I'm sure that child would rather be given a chance then none.
3. Ok.
4. I am not saying it is my choice. No one is really going to take any of us into consideration when thinking about abortion. It isn't my choice I just think it is morally wrong.
5. It will not stop the practice but people will take pregnancy alot more seriously. And if safe abortion isn't an option more people would not try an unsafe abortions unless they seriously needed it.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Absolutely pro-choice. What happens in my uterus is no concern of yours, and what happens in your uterus is no concern of mine. It's for the mother to decide and her only. If you think it's morally reprehensible, don't get one. I'll make my own decision, thanks.
Making abortions illegal will not prevent abortions, in any case. Desperate women will just obtain illegal abortions and more lives will be put at risk. And exactly how would a woman who obtained an illegal abortion be punished, anyway?
I find it interesting that many anti-choicers oppose the same social programs that would help women who choose to forgo abortions. I suppose the lives of such children only matter when they're in the womb.
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ATRL Moderator
Member Since: 11/1/2010
Posts: 26,750
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damn...this thread is heating up, just when i gotta switch to my phone.  
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Banned
Member Since: 8/2/2010
Posts: 7,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by benzene_dream
Absolutely pro-choice. What happens in my uterus is no concern of yours, and what happens in your uterus is no concern of mine. It's for the mother to decide and her only. If you think it's morally reprehensible, don't get one. I'll make my own decision, thanks.
Making abortions illegal will not prevent abortions, in any case. Desperate women will just obtain illegal abortions and more lives will be put at risk. And exactly how would a woman who obtained an illegal abortion be punished, anyway?
I find it interesting that many anti-choicers oppose the same social programs that would help women who choose to forgo abortions. I suppose the lives of such children only matter when they're in the womb.
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Bingo.
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Member Since: 12/20/2008
Posts: 19,669
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurred
She shouldn't be allowed to deny that child life. She can give it away for adoption, but once thiat baby exists, even at conception, it is a living thing. To end its life abruptly is murder, no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
We're not going to agree on this, I've stated my opinion so I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead. |
I for one don't consider it "murder" since it's technically not a living breathing thing. I agree with early termination, you don't & that's fine but it's not murder.
With that said, I'm done discussing this topic. Look forward too the next. GN 
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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I don't see how abortion can be classified as murder when a developing child (at whatever stage) is basically an extension of the mother (a zygote/fetus/whatever is not an autonomous being). You're basically (willingly) killing a part of yourself. I'd say it's closer to assisted suicide more than anything else.
Of course, I realize that it takes two to make a baby, but all of the nourishment comes from the mother so...
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Banned
Member Since: 8/2/2010
Posts: 7,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurred
She shouldn't be allowed to deny that child life. She can give it away for adoption, but once thiat baby exists, even at conception, it is a living thing. To end its life abruptly is murder, no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
We're not going to agree on this, I've stated my opinion so I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead. |
A living thing? Flies are living things. Ants are living things. But I don't think you'd make the argument that it's immoral to "kill" those organisms, would you?
It's not about whether it's life or not, it's about whether the fetus is a human being. And it's so much more complicated than genes/chromosomes.
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Member Since: 10/3/2010
Posts: 50,276
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jewfro
A living thing? Flies are living things. Ants are living things. But I don't think you'd make the argument that it's immoral to "kill" those organisms, would you?
It's not about whether it's life or not, it's about whether the fetus is a human being. And it's so much more complicated than genes/chromosomes.
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Does it really matter if it is a human being at that point. It is 100% sure that the fetus will become a human being at some point, so if you get an abortion you are cutting a life short.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/2/2010
Posts: 7,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGeoKing
Does it really matter if it is a human being at that point.
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Yes.
Quote:
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It is 100% sure that the fetus will become a human being at some point, so if you get an abortion you are cutting a life short.
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So then you're against birth control/contraceptives? Sperm has the potential to become a human being at some point, and sperm/egg combination will potentially become a human being at some point, so blocking that combination would be murder by your logic.
Don't get me wrong, I respect everyone's opinion on this matter because it's a touchy subject. But it's not something that's black and white. It really isn't. That does go both ways, but if you're claiming that it is murder, the burden of proof is on you.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGeoKing
Does it really matter if it is a human being at that point. It is 100% sure that the fetus will become a human being at some point, so if you get an abortion you are cutting a life short.
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Seeing as how the developing child is in a damn near parasitic relationship with the mother at that point, yes, I would say it does. Without that the concept of "choice" wouldn't even be discussed.
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Member Since: 10/3/2010
Posts: 50,276
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jewfro
Yes.
So then you're against birth control/contraceptives? Sperm has the potential to become a human being at some point, and sperm/egg combination will become a human being at some point, so blocking that combination would be murder by your logic.
Don't get me wrong, I respect everyone's opinion on this matter because it's a touchy subject. But it's not something that's black and white. It really isn't. That does go both ways, but if you're claiming that it is murder, the burden of proof is on you.
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See.... there is a clear difference between what we said.
Fetus = 100% chance of becoming a human being
1 Sperm to an Egg = "has the potential to become a human being at some point..."
I am not against birth control/contraceptives.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/2/2010
Posts: 7,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by benzene_dream
Seeing as how the developing child is in a damn near parasitic relationship with the mother at that point, yes, I would say it does. Without that the concept of "choice" wouldn't even be discussed.
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This too.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/2/2010
Posts: 7,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGeoKing
See.... there is a clear difference between what we said.
Fetus = 100% chance of becoming a human being
1 Sperm to an Egg = "has the potential to become a human being at some point..."
I am not against birth control/contraceptives.
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Then why do miscarriages happen? 
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jewfro
Then why do miscarriages happen? |
We are completely on the same page here. I was just about to say this.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/21/2009
Posts: 448
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Pro forced abortions! There have been studies where people who are criminals are more likely to give birth to criminal children.
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Member Since: 8/19/2006
Posts: 6,475
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brooke-lynn
What about that female who took all the precautions in the book & still manage to get pregnant. What is her option? She's NOT financially ready or emotionally ready. What do you say to that girl? Sorry you have too have this child!! Then 2 months later you turn on the news & that same girl murder her baby, WHAT THEN?  |
The problem with this argument is that it is a publicly-known fact that there is NO form of birth control or precaution that works 100% of the time (yes, yes, except for abstinence  ). When you use birth control like condoms, the pill, etc., you do it under the assumption that you know that it isn't 100% effective (the companies are even required by law in many countries to put that on the box) and that there is ALWAYS a risk of pregnancy. It's simply irresponsible to do something risky when you know you're not ready or capable of assuming the consequences of the risk, and ignorance shouldn't be a justification for this kind of irresponsible decision-making.
Thus, we need to have better sex ed. courses in high schools everywhere! People need to be well-informed about sex. The moment we have a citizenry that is well-versed on sexuality, I think that the abortion debate will get a lot simpler. But for that we need to improve the way sex ed. is taught in many places around the world (and that definitely includes the U.S.).
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