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Poll: Is it hypocritical to have 'Dope' and 'MJH' both on ARTPOP?
View Poll Results: Was it hypocritical to leave Mary Jane Holland on ARTPOP?
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Yes, it still glamourises the drug
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42 |
45.65% |
No, it shows her journey
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50 |
54.35% |
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheCheetahwings
People keep referencing the order of the songs on the record, because the question is "s it hypocritical to have 'Dope' and 'MJH' both on ARTPOP?". So of course were going to reference both songs. Gaga's intentions are fairly obvious, so I have no idea how you don't see it. The order of the songs are COMPLETELY RELEVANT.
Your argument is completely ridiculous. You can't say "Oh well there's no guarantee someone will listen to both in order..." because we could say the exact same thing about Dope "Oh well, someone may listen to Dope and not MJH!" It has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand, which is "Is it hypocritical to have 'Dope' and 'MJH' both on ARTPOP". The answer is simple:
No, because the songs are meant to be listen back to back (hell, Gaga even has said the album is meant to be listened in order). it would only be "hypocritical" if Gaga were to release Dope FIRST and then come back and release MJH on the next record or something. Gaga can't control how her music is listened to, but her intentions are clear and are most certainly NOT hypocritical.
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Ok well I'm not changing my opinion on the matter. Just because the songs are meant to be listened to back-to-back and Gaga herself has said the album is meant to be listened to in order doesn't mean it will be. More often than not, the songs are going to be listened to independently. Some young, impressionable teenagers and their friends might be inspired to buy and try marijuana because of the song, setting in a butterfly-effect of circumstances that otherwise mightn't have happened if they'd never bought/tried the drug at such a young age.
It's not exclusively this song though. As I said before, there are other songs, films and TV shows that glamourise drug-use and may inspire teenagers to experiment, for example Project X, Bad Neighbours, the TV show Weeds, Workaholics, South Park, Family Guy, Miley Cyrus, Rihanna, Harold & Kumar Visit White Castle, Pineapple Express, 21 Jump Street etc. The difference is, these artists and the makers of these films and TV shows don't care about the wellbeing or experimentation of their younger fans like Lady Gaga does.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/3/2012
Posts: 13,073
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A 7 page thread about why Gaga put Dope and MJH on the same album.
Angelina, her power.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Su-Barbie-A
A 7 page thread about why Gaga put Dope and MJH on the same album.
Angelina, her power.
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My name is Josh.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 7,974
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I don't really have anything to add but I just wanted to say that I've found the conversation really interesting and I think both sides have been valid and well-argued by those properly engaging in the discussion.
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Member Since: 11/15/2011
Posts: 5,947
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Dope usually means cocaine or a more hardcore drug... MJH is about casual weed smoking and feeling carefree. Therefore, NO.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
True. That quote is probably more telling than anything else in this thread. She is incredibly honest, but at the same time she's also incredibly caring and loving of her fans, not to mention concerned for their well-being. You only have to look at the fact that the BTW Foundation aims to help people suffering with addiction. I guess that's where my questions of "is it hypocritical?" comes from. Because Miley and Rihanna seem to radiate this IDGAF attitude 100%, and then Gaga does too by saying "I'm completely honest with my fans, that's the most important thing" but then she also does give a **** because she's so involved and concerned with their health and well-being, all the while she's completely oblivious to the fact that she herself might currently be inspiring the experimentation that will potentially lead to future addictions. Does that make any sense? It's great to be honest, but I think she should also be more consistent with the image she portrays to her fans, because even though she's come full circle, many of her fans are at 0 degrees and are only just starting to experiment.
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I get what you're saying. I don't think the BTW Foundation is about specifically addiction though, its about people who feel alone, disenfranchised, bullied, don't have confidence, etc. People suffering from addiction do fall into that, but yeah. I think it just goes back to whole thing about being careful, because not everybody who does weed is going to become addicted. Kinda like alcohol, she could have a song about partying and drinking (she does have a few, like Just Dance) but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about people who suffer from addiction. It's just that not everybody who partakes falls into addiction. I guess this goes into another whole debate about weed being a gateway drug, etc, and she might feel differently about it.
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Member Since: 8/4/2006
Posts: 4,946
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Quote:
Originally posted by halcyonday
Nah, the album is about nothing.
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isn't it sad?
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 6,189
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Someone posted this thread on another forum and i thought it was a joke/satire, so people are actually serious about this :tragedy: I'm sorry to the OP, but it's kinda asinine and I really can't be bothered to even come up with an argument. If you can't see why they're not contradictory, you're either trolling for reaction or seek help.
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khal
Someone posted this thread on another forum and i thought it was a joke/satire, so people are actually serious about this :tragedy: I'm sorry to the OP, but it's kinda asinine and I really can't be bothered to even come up with an argument. If you can't see why they're not contradictory, you're either trolling for reaction or seek help.
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I need to seek professional help because I have an opinion that's different to yours? Grow up, would you. And come up with a better insult while you're at it. Even better, don't insult someone at all. It's incredibly insensitive to make light out of mental health problems. How dare you.
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Member Since: 9/22/2010
Posts: 2,628
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I'd say it's a more responsible approach to singing about drugs. I mean, she already had Jewels n Drugs as well as MJH, so at least she was thoughtful enough to put Dope on there as if saying, "But wait. It's not all fun n games". To see it as hypocritical is just tearing down her efforts to at least be responsible. But honestly, if your argument is that people might not listen to one after the other... I dunno, that's such a weird argument stance :s Like, of course they might not listen to the album all the way through, but even on shuffle, there's just as good a chance that Dope will come up as MJH. Unless they don't have one or the other, because they don't like one of them. And then it boils down (more clearly than before) to whether the listener wants to hear about fun times in Amsterdam or if they'd prefer to holler along to a ballad. At least Gaga gave them the option. Doesn't deserve to be called a hypocrite (at least for THIS).
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
I get what you're saying. I don't think the BTW Foundation is about specifically addiction though, its about people who feel alone, disenfranchised, bullied, don't have confidence, etc. People suffering from addiction do fall into that, but yeah. I think it just goes back to whole thing about being careful, because not everybody who does weed is going to become addicted. Kinda like alcohol, she could have a song about partying and drinking (she does have a few, like Just Dance) but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about people who suffer from addiction. It's just that not everybody who partakes falls into addiction. I guess this goes into another whole debate about weed being a gateway drug, etc, and she might feel differently about it.
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I get what you're saying too, but I feel like we're about to go around in circles hahaha. You're clearly coming from the perspective that marijuana-use can be likened to alcohol-consumption, and that most people have their head on their shoulders and can understand that it's a "sometimes" activity that they only engage in recreationally. However I'm coming from the perspective that not only is a gateway drug, but once someone has experimented with it, you don't know how frequently they'll choose to smoke it. It's not entirely equivalent to alcohol. It is in the sense that (like you said) songs can inspire kids to experiment with them. But they're very different sensations. Often with alcohol, there's vomiting, a hangover, a headache, embarrassment and a declaration of "I'm never drinking again." Someone who experiments with marijuana might really like it, and they can start smoking it every single night at home for a while (which is what I started doing when I was younger) however over time, you get lazy and stop caring about your assignments and grades. There's similarities between alcohol and marijuana, but they're not the same thing. Teens can be motivated to get drunk by what they see in the media, but the post-consumption experience of alcohol usually prevents frequent consumption, which isn't the case with weed.
I understand where you're coming from. And obviously I'm dealing in potential/hypothetical situations. There's no right or wrong answer. Just differences in opinions
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 3,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4AM.
If she should have removed either it should be "MJH".
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No lies detected.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khal
Someone posted this thread on another forum and i thought it was a joke/satire, so people are actually serious about this :tragedy: I'm sorry to the OP, but it's kinda asinine and I really can't be bothered to even come up with an argument. If you can't see why they're not contradictory, you're either trolling for reaction or seek help.
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...Seriously? It was a simple question and there's been a good discussion. I really don't understand why people reply with posts like these, calm down.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
I get what you're saying too, but I feel like we're about to go around in circles hahaha. You're clearly coming from the perspective that marijuana-use can be likened to alcohol-consumption, and that most people have their head on their shoulders and can understand that it's a "sometimes" activity that they only engage in recreationally. However I'm coming from the perspective that not only is a gateway drug, but once someone has experimented with it, you don't know how frequently they'll choose to smoke it. It's not entirely equivalent to alcohol. It is in the sense that (like you said) songs can inspire kids to experiment with them. But they're very different sensations. Often with alcohol, there's vomiting, a hangover, a headache, embarrassment and a declaration of "I'm never drinking again." Someone who experiments with marijuana might really like it, and they can start smoking it every single night at home for a while (which is what I started doing when I was younger) however over time, you get lazy and stop caring about your assignments and grades. There's similarities between alcohol and marijuana, but they're not the same thing. Teens can be motivated to get drunk by what they see in the media, but the post-consumption experience of alcohol usually prevents frequent consumption, which isn't the case with weed.
I understand where you're coming from. And obviously I'm dealing in potential/hypothetical situations. There's no right or wrong answer. Just differences in opinions
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Oh yeah for sure, I definitely get what you're saying. I guess that's just another whole debate haha.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 1,327
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No. The two stories combined tell a story. That's the ART.
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Member Since: 12/15/2011
Posts: 13,205
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,618
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It's like the coexistence of Treacherous and I Knew You Were Trouble
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Member Since: 4/9/2012
Posts: 16,749
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no, because weed aint dope.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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Cause I love, love, cause I love, love, you better than, you better than, my darkest sin
Mine myself like coal, a mountain of a soul, each day, I cry, oh, I feel so low from living high
"Glamorizing" - perhaps this why popstars don't bother writing intelligent material. No one reads it anyway.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,745
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I'm 90% positive she has confirmed the juxtaposition of the songs, and I'm also pretty sure she confirmed dope was, in fact, about weed. I rarely ever hear people use the word 'dope' at all any more, but when I do, they're typically referring to marijuana. Legit don't think I've ever heard it been used in reference to 'coke' or 'heroin'
Also, it's definitely possible to be somewhat addicted to weed. Granted, it's not as intense of a mental or physical addiction as harder drugs, but that's why they're classified as 'harder drugs' after all. You can get dependent on anything if it becomes part of your daily routine. I know a lot of people who I think are borderline addicted to pot.. they're super lethargic, look a bit sloppy all the time, unmotivated and it's not just them being a 'stoner'. They wake up and they like NEED to smoke or they're in a bad mood / can't function the way they normally do and if you take weed away from them for too long they become irritable and unpleasant. That kind of seems like a small form of addiction to me.
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