|
ATRL: Pope: Denying Gay Marriage Is Human Right
Member Since: 9/25/2011
Posts: 12,630
|
Also, imagine how the same people who believe it's their right to deny someone a gay marriage license would feel if they went to a grocery store to buy alcohol and a Muslim cashier said they wouldn't cash them out. They would lose their ****. There are so many other examples I could use. At the end of the day, if you don't believe in gay marriage then don't marry a person of the same sex, it's that simple. You should never be able to refuse a service to someone who doesn't practice your same religious beliefs.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,905
|
Quote:
Originally posted by iheartBrit
The choice to marry whoever you love is a human right, actually.
|
Well I mean, not really
Anyway I feel like some of y'all expected too much of him. He still is the pope, and he's done a world of good popularizing/validating more moderate stances to his 1+ billion followers. Furthermore he answered the question generally, and not specifically about Kim Davis or even talked what should have happened thoroughly.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/25/2011
Posts: 12,630
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Alejandrawrrr
Well I mean, not really
|
Why not? I want to hear your reasoning behind this.
Being gay is not a choice, you're born that way. Therefore it should be a basic human right to marry the person you love.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
|
Quote:
Originally posted by downbywednesday
It stops being an opinion when you start denying people their constitutional rights. Your religion doesn't give you the right to desecrate the law ( Employment Division vs. Smith).
But like fave politician like stan I guess
|
Quote:
Originally posted by GreasyBruce
Sorry but you don't get to tell gay men what or what isn't oppressive to them, especially when you support this guy
|
Yeah, whatever. Someone personally not believing in gay marriage isn't oppression or a violation of rights, anyway you slice it. The Pope is not a lawmaker. He does not govern. If he was, and this opinion was affecting his work, then you'd have an argument. But someone simply not being in favor of it is not oppression.
And Down sis, the great HRC has been fighting for your rights since the 90s. Cut it.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
|
Quote:
Originally posted by LoKoPaNdA
Yeah this is why I hate this Pope bandwagon. Is he more progressive than other popes? Yes, but at the end of the day the church is the church and it won't become liberal over night.
|
Why on EARTH would you want the church to become liberal? That makes zero sense, the church is the only institution that should forever remain conservative, for checks and balances.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Why on EARTH would you want the church to become liberal? That makes zero sense, the church is the only institution that should forever remain conservative, for checks and balances.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,905
|
Quote:
Originally posted by iheartBrit
Why not? I want to hear your reasoning behind this.
Being gay is not a choice, you're born that way. Therefore it should be a basic human right to marry the person you love.
|
Well I just don't think any form of marriage is a "human right" per se. It's a legal contract, I don't think it would be a violation of human rights if, for example, some fictional/hypothetical nation didn't issue or recognize ANY marriages. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro gay marriage and agree that if a nation legally performs and recognizes straight marriages, they should be required to do the same with same-sex marriages assuming all factors are the same (age of consent, for example).
Also, I was being mostly anal about your wording ("the choice to marry whoever you love is a human right"). Is it my right to marry someone who doesn't love me? What if I love and choose to marry a 13 year old? What if the person is already married to someone else? etc. I don't have an issue with "the choice to marry a consenting adult", but again, I'm sure you already agree with my point and I was just being nitpicky with regards to the wording.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/2/2011
Posts: 28,055
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Yeah, whatever. Someone personally not believing in gay marriage isn't oppression or a violation of rights, anyway you slice it. The Pope is not a lawmaker. He does not govern. If he was, and this opinion was affecting his work, then you'd have an argument. But someone simply not being in favor of it is not oppression.
And Down sis, the great HRC has been fighting for your rights since the 90s. Cut it.
|
You don't know anything about the Pope if you really think his opinion cannot affect laws and social attitudes that have very real effects on people's lives. And he does actually govern the Vatican, which is an independent state.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
|
Quote:
Originally posted by GreasyBruce
You don't know anything about the Pope if you really think his opinion cannot affect laws and social attitudes that have very real effects on people's lives. And he does actually govern the Vatican, which is an independent state.
|
Of course it can. But him being a major figure doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his opinion. And please, what's the population of the Vatican? 500? Let's not act like he's some huge government figure. A singular opinion does not equal oppression.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/2/2011
Posts: 28,055
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Of course it can. But him being a major figure doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his opinion. And please, what's the population of the Vatican? 500? Let's not act like he's some huge government figure. A singular opinion does not equal oppression.
|
It does constitute oppression when it has far reaching effects as his opinion does. He will then travel to Africa and Latin America, where Catholic representatives in certain countries have immense influence in the government, and give similar speeches, fueling more anti-gay (and anti-trans, by extension, since they are so closely associated in the public's mind) bigotry. It will trickle down into religious schools who will remain in their steadfast anti-gay stance, into what they teach children getting their first communion and confirmation, who will then grow up with those ideas and educate their own children based on them, enact laws based on them if they go into politics, and on a more general level, simply judge others based on those ideas. For a hugely influential global leader to explicitly, publicly state an opinion like this is 100% oppression. It will result in oppression.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/29/2012
Posts: 26,389
|
This reverse warholian post.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,389
|
Mess, ATRL was ready to stan
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,389
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/13/2010
Posts: 11,566
|
It is your human right to not uphold the law based on your conscious. The idea of being a conscious objector is something that should happen in society. Sure we think she is on the wrong side of history, and she should give up her position if she feels so strongly, but think of all the times people were not conscious objectors (Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, etc.)
His statement, when looked at in a broader context than just the religious freedom of a county clerk, makes a lot of sense.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/19/2012
Posts: 5,843
|
He's right, if it is against her morals then she does not need to do the job.
She has to give her position up to someone who will.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 5,341
|
Y'all did NOT expect the Pope to attack Catholics for not wanting to allow gay marriage
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
|
As expected. I hope this shows that he's never been the "advocate" people were hoping or (wanted) him to be.
He made things a little better by saying that churches should focus their efforts on eradicating poverty and other issues and not just have priests ranting about gay marriage, but he's never been and will never be on board on this.
The Catholic Church, or Vatican City I should say, will probably be one of the last if not the last place on Earth that will accept gay marriage. I predict even some places in the Middle East (like the handful that don't have any sodomy laws) to warm up to it before them. They say it's "about the children" but in reality their worst fear is a split - they like having more or less one uniform sect of Christianity. They're more concerned about themselves and their numbers than anything else.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel
He's right, if it is against her morals then she does not need to do the job.
She has to give her position up to someone who will.
|
Thing is, she wasn't willing to give it up and just ended up holding up marriage licenses for EVERYONE not just gays for days. Luckily, it seems an agreement has been reached between all parties, but she'll still sell her story like if she was still being prosecuted today
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,240
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Yeah, whatever. Someone personally not believing in gay marriage isn't oppression or a violation of rights, anyway you slice it. The Pope is not a lawmaker. He does not govern. If he was, and this opinion was affecting his work, then you'd have an argument. But someone simply not being in favor of it is not oppression.
And Down sis, the great HRC has been fighting for your rights since the 90s. Cut it.
|
Supporting someone who is willingly and knowingly violating the Constitution and discrimination is wrong, any way you spin it.
And I'm not gay. Unlike the Clintons, sometimes I support things for reasons other than my own personal self-interests.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/7/2014
Posts: 4,178
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Reader
I don't think he is tbh. That lady who went to jail for refusing to marry gay people obvs felt it would contravene her faith, and if someone is hot on their religion it would be sorta hypocritical/against God to act otherwise. I don't even know any gays who give even half a **** about it, lol, but the issue has been politicised and is out of the everyday gay's hands. One of the best things about being gay is no chirrens and little pressure to get married/live that humdrum life. Marriage is an outdated concept with roots that are all about ownership of women, and over half end in divorce.
|
She can believe whatever she wants to believe but she is being paid by the Gov't so either do your job or get out.
|
|
|
|
|