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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I lived in New Hampshire for a year and I'm applying to go back to the United States and hopefully become an American one day.
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Makes more sense. Was it a student visa?
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buddha!
I saw what you said about white voters, and I agreed hence why I ignored it. I mean he's campaigned here already so, and his message was still the same. He visited a College town right near the second biggest city in the state. "According to the Sanders campaign, Sanders, an independent U.S. senator from Vermont, plans to speak about "getting big money out of politics," combating climate change and making college affordable. All of those topics have been major platforms for his campaign.." He's not doing anything different, at least not yet. |
Don't expect one rally to have all that much influence, especially for a name that was virtually mentioned nowhere before running for president except for the state of Vermont. The polls that RatedG posted from nearly two months ago show Bernie behind Clinton only by 13 points, when O'Malley was still in the race and when none of those major milestones for Sanders' campaign had occurred yet.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ramcoro
Makes more sense. Was it a student visa?
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Yes.
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Member Since: 8/28/2009
Posts: 7,345
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Like I said before, I have recruited over a dozen friends back in New Hampshire to vote for Bernie, that has more influence than me casting one vote, I'm no different than an underage American who's volunteering for Bernie but isn't eligible to vote for him. But nice drag.  |
Bernie's been projected to win in NH, no?? That won't mean a lot unless he can win some other big states. And it wasn't a drag, just funny.
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Banned
Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 18,555
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I lived in New Hampshire for a year and I'm applying to go back to the United States and hopefully become an American one day.
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I just checked, you're from Jordan. Are you Muslim? If so, I think it's best if you don't come here right now. I mean, no offense, but our country has to deal with the threat that is Islam before we allow more Muslims into our country.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Mess @ you ignoring my entire post about how Bernie's "appeal to white voters" is because he's only mainly campaigned in NH and IA, two states that are 95% white. He needs to get his name out there first, we don't know how well he does with minority voters, and it's plainly stupid to compare his minority appeal with someone who was FLOTUS, Senator from NY, previous presidential candidate and Secretary of State.
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I just wanna say that while it's true he has only campaigned heavily in the first two mostly white states, there are still minorities in both states so they still felt the impact. However his message didn't seem to generate the same support from minorities in Iowa. Clinton still won by a healthy margin with minorities in Iowa (something close to +16 points). After New Hampshire if she still easily beats him out on minorities, regardless of whether she wins or loses the state overall, then we can extrapolate that Sanders does indeed have a minority problem that isn't linked to him not being known.
But before I make that assertion I'll have to wait for full NH results. Nevada would be a good state to see as well
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 39,650
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Don't expect one rally to have all that much influence, especially for a name that was virtually mentioned nowhere before running for president except for the state of Vermont. The polls that RatedG posted from nearly two months ago show Bernie behind Clinton only by 13 points, when O'Malley was still in the race and when none of those major milestones for Sanders' campaign had occurred yet.
Yes.
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I'm not expecting that one rally to have much influence, but what i'm saying is he didn't change up his typical campaigning. Pandering to the same demographic that nearly got him the win in IA.
And what poll? A Mass poll?
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinker
Bernie's been projected to win in NH, no?? That won't mean a lot unless he can win some other big states. And it wasn't a drag, just funny.
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We don't care about NH and IA because of their weight on the final outcome in the convention, they're weighed so heavily in American politics because of their influence on other states and their fairly consistent ability to project previous Oval Office winners, but wait for the non-American to tell you that. You know, this is not a drag either, just funny.
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Member Since: 6/28/2008
Posts: 4,530
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If I vote in one primary, and then move to a different state with a later primary, can I vote in that one too?
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buddha!
I'm not expecting that one rally to have much influence, but what i'm saying is he didn't change up his typical campaigning. Pandering to the same demographic that nearly got him the win in IA.
And what poll? A Mass poll?
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Yes, a Mass poll.
Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
I just wanna say that while it's true he has only campaigned heavily in the first two mostly white states, there are still minorities in both states so they still felt the impact. However his message didn't seem to generate the same support from minorities in Iowa. Clinton still won by a healthy margin with minorities in Iowa (something close to +16 points). After New Hampshire if she still easily beats him out on minorities, regardless of whether she wins or loses the state overall, then we can extrapolate that Sanders does indeed have a minority problem that isn't linked to him not being known.
But before I make that assertion I'll have to wait for full NH results. Nevada would be a good state to see as well
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I agree, it's still way too early to decide that based on one state.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jolie's Lips
I just checked, you're from Jordan. Are you Muslim? If so, I think it's best if you don't come here right now. I mean, no offense, but our country has to deal with the threat that is Islam before we allow more Muslims into our country.
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I am an Episcopal Christian but I certainly hope you weren't being serious with this post.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jolie's Lips
I just checked, you're from Jordan. Are you Muslim? If so, I think it's best if you don't come here right now. I mean, no offense, but our country has to deal with the threat that is Islam before we allow more Muslims into our country.
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A true Trump supporter. Let's not come here with this rederict
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
A true Trump supporter. Let's not come here with this rederict
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I don't think they were being serious, I mean... they couldn't have been... right?
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mickey
If I vote in one primary, and then move to a different state with a later primary, can I vote in that one too?
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No. You have to be living in the state for 6 months before voting
You could have back in 2008. Iowa was held in January, some other states were held in June (at the very tail end of the primary). But not this year
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I don't think they were being serious, I mean... they couldn't have been... right?
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Knowing him I truly think he was serious. It's not even funny that's the thing, just plainly disgusting.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Do you really change your principles based on the "world" you live in? This is terrible, this is exactly how you don't get change done.
I live in a country that's 999 times more conservative than the USA and I am completely aware that it will not recognize gay rights, many women's rights, free public healthcare, free college tuition, free speech, full access to abortion, etc. any time soon, but those are my principles and I will advocate for them regardless of how little the outcome might be.
If people had your kind of attitude then the countless progressive highlights that the world had achieved over the past decade would have never occurred, it's very pessimistic, backwards and cowardly to give up to the surrounding atmosphere.
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EVERYONE changes based on the world they live in. We're all a product of the environment and people around us.
Now, since you dug up that post from last night and decided to lay into me over it, let me explain further and clarify. The top one is what I'd be IF I though that certain policies were economically effective. They're not. It's what I'd be IF I though that certain policies were socially effective. They're not. It's what I'd be IF all these progressive ideals outside of social progress had ever been proven for a second to be workable, effective, and above all, beneficial to everyone (the very core of the progressive mindset). They're just not.
That's what I mean by a perfect world. If the ideal was actually ideal and if the ideal could be achieved in the way that Bernie Sanders says that it could, but in the reality I face, I do not live in that perfect world, and I think that an essential part of the human condition is realizing that we never will. I am a centrist because of the practices and policies I support. I am a centrist because of the existing economic system and how I think we can best operate that to the benefit of everyone. I am a centrist and a Democrat because of the goals I support for our country and how I think we need to achieve them.
It's not just about the end, it is very much about the means. I fight for what I believe in and you're in no place to imply that I don't. I fight for what I believe in, and for how I think we should win that fight. I'm no more weak in my views than anyone in here - in fact, I'm pretty sure there's nobody else in here quite as set in their views and passionate about them.
Attacking a difference of views while only knowing two lines and two graphs isn't a sound way to tell me I'm wrong, and I'll tell your right now that I'm not wrong. You and I agree on the ends - just like the candidates we both passionately support, which I've said I admire in you. I see you as my equal on the other side of the Democratic Party. But we disagree greatly on the means to those ends and the best candidate to achieve them.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Besides, I don't find it objectionable at all to advocate for progressive change through existing channels and with awareness of the existing political atmosphere rather than calling for a political revolution that may not even be supported or wanted by enough people for it to happen. That's again just a difference in means to the same end.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
EVERYONE changes based on the world they live in. We're all a product of the environment and people around us.
Now, since you dug up that post from last night and decided to lay into me over it, let me explain further and clarify. The top one is what I'd be IF I though that certain policies were economically effective. They're not. It's what I'd be IF I though that certain policies were socially effective. They're not. It's what I'd be IF all these progressive ideals outside of social progress had ever been proven for a second to be workable, effective, and above all, beneficial to everyone (the very core of the progressive mindset). They're just not.
That's what I mean by a perfect world. If the ideal was actually ideal and if the ideal could be achieved in the way that Bernie Sanders says that it could, but in the reality I face, I do not live in that perfect world, and I think that an essential part of the human condition is realizing that we never will. I am a centrist because of the practices and policies I support. I am a centrist because of the existing economic system and how I think we can best operate that to the benefit of everyone. I am a centrist and a Democrat because of the goals I support for our country and how I think we need to achieve them.
It's not just about the end, it is very much about the means. I fight for what I believe in and you're in no place to imply that I don't. I fight for what I believe in, and for how I think we should win that fight. I'm no more weak in my views than anyone in here - in fact, I'm pretty sure there's nobody else in here quite as set in their views and passionate about them.
Attacking a difference of views while only knowing two lines and two graphs isn't a sound way to tell me I'm wrong, and I'll tell your right now that I'm not wrong. You and I agree on the ends - just like the candidates we both passionately support, which I've said I admire in you. I see you as my equal on the other side of the Democratic Party. But we disagree greatly on the means to those ends and the best candidate to achieve them.
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I was NOT attacking you for what you believe in, I was concerned about the fact that your views change based on the surrounding atmosphere.
I'm judging by the fact that you stated multiple times your views on things solely because other better solutions would be impossible to pass or wouldn't be approved by the American people, I'm judging that flawed notion because it's the exact notion that can't get radical progress achieved.
You didn't have to turn this into an extremely defensive argument about your views, because your moderate views are just fine, it's (some of the) reasons why you possess such views that I disagree on, and I would still call out a far-left progressive if they had such views because of those reasons that lack foundation and are very pessimistic.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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But sis, pessimism and advocating for things to change in slower and different ways isn't a bad thing. I don't see how that's bad at all. At some point we have to be honest about whether things can happen at all. This isn't just about more people wanting it or more people turning out to vote or all the things that Bernie seems to be sure will help him. There is legitimate and STRONG opposition to many of his ideas from both sides. I'm not the kind of person to give up - when I say "I don't think we can do this," it's not because I'm just being a cautious pessimist, it's that I literally do not believe it's possible to accomplish in the current US.
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Member Since: 8/28/2009
Posts: 7,345
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
We don't care about NH and IA because of their weight on the final outcome in the convention, they're weighed so heavily in American politics because of their influence on other states and their fairly consistent ability to project previous Oval Office winners, but wait for the non-American to tell you that. You know, this is not a drag either, just funny.
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nn, okay bernster. one for hillary, one for bernie i guess. So it's then left to the other states, right? Educate me!
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinker
nn, okay bernster. one for hillary, one for bernie i guess. So it's then left to the other states, right? Educate me!
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But he's entirely right. Even if it's a given win for Bernie, NH is influential and important for the rest of the race.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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This reminds me exactly of what my Republican host mom in the US used to tell me about how the "War of Southern Aggression" shouldn't have happened and people should have advocated against slavery less radically and more moderately to get change done.
I don't possess a go-radical-or-go-home ideology, I am okay with centrists as well as conservatives, I just extremely oppose the reasons that are getting you to deal with these issues that way.
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