|
TV Show: Bruce Jenner - The Interview
Member Since: 9/17/2006
Posts: 3,506
|
Quote:
Originally posted by emmanuel_punk
I don't get it, what is all this drama for?
Is he now a girl or what?
|
He would still like to be referenced as he/him at the moment (Once his transformation is finalized, he will then go by she/her, by then), but he is indeed going under a gender transformation, and officially states he is transgender. It's a powerful interview in which you should take the time and watch.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Silence.
The idea that having a female sexed body makes you a woman is a dicey one to begin with. There are plenty females out there who have had their breasts removed or their ovaries removed and so on and so forth nd they're no less women than anyone else. There's more to being a female than your reproductive capabilities. To say that someone who is transitioning and has transitioned is not a woman is outright bigotry.
|
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Loco
Yeah, that's right, you can have your sexual organs removed and that doesn't make you less of a man or a woman, because you can't change your chromosomes, and that's what makes you a man or a woman.
|
There are women out there who have XY chromosomes and men who have XX chromosomes (intersex people) , so no.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/26/2007
Posts: 15,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
There are women out there who have XY chromosomes and men who have XX chromosomes (intersex people) , so no.
|
Those people are more like the exception, because they are not completely male or female, that's why they are called intersex people.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Loco
Those people are more like the exception, because they are not completely male or female, that's why they are called intersex people.
|
Uhmmm. They usually identify as either male or female, nothing inbetween.
If your mind is telling you you're a woman, you're a woman.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,523
|
I'm so embarrassed by some of the things people have the audacity of saying her
Please do yourselves a favor and educate yourself about the community you're part of, this board is a full blown mess some of these girls only care about thirsting for daddies and being overall nasty vapid attention *****s.
Sad.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/26/2007
Posts: 15,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
Uhmmm. They usually identify as either male or female, nothing inbetween.
If your mind is telling you you're a woman, you're a woman.
|
Again... it's different what you identify with, and what you really are.
If I'm an 80 year old man and my mind tells me I'm a teenager, I'm still NOT a teenager.
If I'm a black person and my mind tells me I'm a white person, I'm still NOT a white person.
If I'm a bad singer and my mind tells me I'm a good one, I'm still NOT a good singer.
The mind is very powerful, but there are just somethings the mind can't control even if we like it or not.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
|
It was really powerful. I'm happy that she's happy.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/16/2011
Posts: 3,432
|
Now this to me is the EPITOME of bravery.
To be perceived as this iconic figure in American culture for years and to be strong enough to be open about who he really is and disregard people's perception of him is really inspiring and a test of true strength. Just.. Wow, seriously.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2013
Posts: 10,073
|
Watching the interview for the first time right now.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/16/2011
Posts: 3,432
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lexiel
It is, we're witnessing LGBTQ history unfold before our eyes.
Brucetta is paving the way for generations of trans boys and girls and I can't at how brave she's being.
|
I pray that this community provides him with support and can use his message as a message of strength and love.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,602
|
For a site full of gay/bi and etch, members of LGBT community you guys are beyond ignorance and hypocritical about your own community. Some of you guys are more ignorant then some the GP. How can you be part of the a community when some people outside that community is more knowledgeable, accepting, welcoming then you. Sad
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Loco
Again... it's different what you identify with, and what you really are.
If I'm an 80 year old man and my mind tells me I'm a teenager, I'm still NOT a teenager.
If I'm a black person and my mind tells me I'm a white person, I'm still NOT a white person.
If I'm a bad singer and my mind tells me I'm a good one, I'm still NOT a good singer.
The mind is very powerful, but there are just somethings the mind can't control even if we like it or not.
|
Concerning gender? No, I don't believe that.
None of those things are relevant. Trans people are real people. They're not hypothetical, they exist. You either respect the gender they've assigned themselves or you don't.
A lot of them have hidden their transexuality all their lives, so when they make that choice it's not out of confusion, they're not deluded ( the difference between a trans woman's brain and a man's brain was caught in brain scans, they're not making it up). Sometimes nature just messes up and puts us in the "wrong" bodies.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 6,568
|
I think it'd probably be good to acknowledge the idea of gender fluidity. Many people don't ascribe to either gender. Also no one should really be talking about genitalia here as many transpeople feel fully comfortable living their lives as the opposite of their 'birthed' gender while still retaining their original genitalia. We shouldn't downplay the journey to just body parts.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 6,568
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Loco
Yeah, that's right, you can have your sexual organs removed and that doesn't make you less of a man or a woman, because you can't change your chromosomes, and that's what makes you a man or a woman.
|
See you're not even using the right terminology. Man and woman are terms of gender, which is a social construct. You saying someone is not a woman when they tell you they are is because to you a woman is a particular thing. It's an essentialist notion, that woman and men are intrinsically different when it's not really true and is a theory birthed from patriarchal structure that centred around power relations.
Sex is male and female and that's biological. Getting to chromosomes it's XX (Female) and XY(Male) and thus not really that different. Even then studies say it's chemical, studies show that it's about what gets passed around your body. People who identify as transgender have a different biological process than someone who does not. This biological process more so matches the sex they identify with.
If that's your opinion that's fine but it's not something that can be structured as if it's a biological or scientific fact as it's a rather arguable debate.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Silence.
I think it'd probably be good to acknowledge the idea of gender fluidity. Many people don't ascribe to either gender. Also no one should really be talking about genitalia here as many transpeople feel fully comfortable living their lives as the opposite of their 'birthed' gender while still retaining their original genitalia. We shouldn't downplay the journey to just body parts.
|
All true.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/26/2007
Posts: 15,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Silence.
I think it'd probably be good to acknowledge the idea of gender fluidity. Many people don't ascribe to either gender. Also no one should really be talking about genitalia here as many transpeople feel fully comfortable living their lives as the opposite of their 'birthed' gender while still retaining their original genitalia. We shouldn't downplay the journey to just body parts.
|
I don't really like the "gender" term, I mean, what makes some people believe they have a woman or a man's mind... there is not any absolute difference between how a man and a woman thinks, they share some characteristics, but there is nothing absolute. What people consider as gender is just a bunch of stereotypes, tbh. I may fit into many female-ish stereotypes, but I know I'm a male AND a man, and I accept it and I'm fine with it. I don't have a "man's mind" or a "woman's mind", I just have a mind like everyone else does. The only objective thing to say you are a "he" or a "she" is genitallia and chromosomes, and the rest is subjective.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/26/2007
Posts: 15,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Silence.
See you're not even using the right terminology. Man and woman are terms of gender, which is a social construct. You saying someone is not a woman when they tell you they are is because to you a woman is a particular thing. It's an essentialist notion, that woman and men are intrinsically different when it's not really true and is a theory birthed from patriarchal structure that centred around power relations.
Sex is male and female and that's biological. Getting to chromosomes it's XX (Female) and XY(Male) and thus not really that different. Even then studies say it's chemical, studies show that it's about what gets passed around your body. People who identify as transgender have a different biological process than someone who does not. This biological process more so matches the sex they identify with.
If that's your opinion that's fine but it's not something that can be structured as if it's a biological or scientific fact as it's a rather arguable debate.
|
Why would people define themselves based under some questionable social structure, I don't think those kind of divisions between people should exist at all, because as you said, men and women are not different intrinsically.
Yeah, some chemicals can help you to have a little bit more or less of some characteristic, but again, that's not determinant. An example of that is testosterone: it has been found that gay men have less testorone than straight ones, but there are some gay men that have more testosterone than straight ones and visceversa, it's not something determinative.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 6,568
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Loco
I don't really like the "gender" term, I mean, what makes some people believe they have a woman or a man's mind... there is not any absolute difference between how a man and a woman thinks, they share some characteristics, but there is nothing absolute. What people consider as gender is just a bunch of stereotypes, tbh. I may fit into many female-ish stereotypes, but I know I'm a male AND a man, and I accept it and I'm fine with it. I don't have a "man's mind" or a "woman's mind", I just have a mind like everyone else does. The only objective thing to say you are a "he" or a "she" is genitallia and chromosomes, and the rest is subjective.
|
I suppose I get your point. That at the end of the day it's all reinforcing gender as a thing? Which I suppose I agree with on some level. But at the same time having something like this be seen by 17 or so million people last night really helps push this topic to a level that it hasn't really reached before in mainstream media. So it's one step closer to breaking down that construct.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/26/2007
Posts: 15,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
|
Here is a case of old people feeling like young people, but even if they feel like it, their age still won't change. And we all know about some singers that feel they are great singers, but again, feeling like it doesn't make it true.
Thanks for the article, it was interesting to read, but yet even if it has some clinical importance, it was not really determinant as it does not apply for all cases.
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/31/2011
Posts: 16,937
|
Omg his sickly sweet, bland, singer-songwriter son is soooooooooooo cute.
|
|
|
|
|