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Discussion: Atheists & Agnostics Hangout Thread.
Member Since: 3/1/2012
Posts: 5,765
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Yeah, I don't think anybody here is interested in those weird philosophical discussions or pointless discussions about whether "disprove" is the correct word to use.
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"Philosophy does not have any evidence because it does not need to, therefore you can't say it's myth."
I mean, I've read Harry Potter but that doesn't prove the existence of Voldemort either.
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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^ Are you trying to downplay the importance of philosophy and dismiss it because it is not based on evidence? Philosophy or any philosophical discussion isn't pointless at all. I'd argue that it is the most important discipline (though admittedly may not be the most practically useful). You cannot do science without it, and you cannot avoid engaging even unconsciously in philosophy after doing science (whether after conducting scientific study/research or interpreting scientific findings). Philosophy covers a much larger domain than science does. In fact, science is only a subset of philosophy. It even used to be called "natural philosophy" until 18th century. Science arise out of philosophy and philosophy continuously underpins science. Not only science, but even religion, ethics, politics, law, music, art, language, all things and all aspects of life make use of philosophy. Nothing is exempt from it. All fields of human endeavour, academic subjects and disciplines, even all sciences have their corresponding philosophy. Philosophy is the study of all things. The truth is that we are dealing with very little facts in reality. And very few things in life are based on evidence and can be settled empirically. Everything else is interpretations of the available facts or worldviews we create based on these interpretations. Our legal systems, political systems and concepts, the notion of human rights, the various religious belief and ethical systems, the justification for a particular belief or knowledge, the nuances in vocabulary, and many more things than you can imagine, they were all conceived through and are constantly informed by philosophical discussions and debates. Science is best at providing us technology that alleviates our physical suffering and gives us comfort. But all other issues and affairs, societal or individual, are resolved and settled philosophically. Science, itself, is justified through philosophy because it is only as meaningful as the confidence we place in its many methodological presuppositions. The reason why many scientific-minded western atheists are confidently quick to reject the ideas of God, soul, and afterlife and even use science to justify their unbelief in those things is because science, itself, operates under one such presupposition that the very notion of the supernatural doesn't exist even though it has not been confirmed or established scientifically not to exist. This is a kind of philosophy and is called " methodological naturalism." It is not empirically established but it is the underlying scientific principle. Science is very limited in its scope. It's very useful but still limited. It is useful for most practical purposes but it can never definitively address life's biggest questions regarding reality and existence, not any better than philosophy can. Without informed philosophy and its proper utilization, it can lead to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism exists in science too.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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^^
are you still in this thread trying to convince people that science is a belief and faith in a man in the sky is a fact? gworl go back to your christian thread (if there is one still open and not expired )
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 22,290
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Member Since: 3/1/2012
Posts: 5,765
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
^^
are you still in this thread trying to convince people that science is a belief and faith in a man in the sky is a fact? gworl go back to your christian thread (if there is one still open and not expired )
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I love to have a healthy discussion but he isn't just worth it anymore. The essay
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
I love to have a healthy discussion but he isn't just worth it anymore. The essay
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me too, but his arguments
besides I am bored of talking about evolution, it's not my tea. I would be more entertained if we talked about god or religion in Atheists & Agnostics Hangout Thread. We already an open thread about Evolution vs Creationalism, but he got clockTed infront of everyone so he came running into our thread where a few atheists like to hangout and have discussions about atheism
But those long essay posts with bunch of wikipedia links
thinking he is making a factual point by defeding faith
truly tragic
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Again pholosophy is not inherently useless but nobody here cares about it when discussing questions that demand factual answers such as the origin of life and the universe. And nobody needs this whole "but do you really know what's real?" pothead talk.
This is not some weird pholophical debate about whether or no reality is actually reality.
If we go by this logic then anything, from fairies to unicorn, is a valid thought and connot be "disproven"
But enough of this.
this tread reminded me of this lunatic poster:
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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You will find no and there are no "factual answers" regarding the origin of life and the universe as these things are FAR from established in science. As a matter of fact, these are just two of the many unsolved problems in biology and physics. All we have are some theorists' unsubstantiated speculative hypotheses, philosophical / theological ideas and arguments that would have some scientists, philosophers and academics finding them equally crazy and unconvincing. The questions of who created the universe, what exists outside the universe or what existed before the universe, if any, are firmly not answered by any scientific field. They are purely speculative at this time. Until science can come up with a coherent and universally accepted theory on the topic of origin, this is still largely inside the domain of philosophy. Even the most attractive theory for atheists, Lawrence Krauss' idea of "A Universe from Nothing," is essentially nothing but a speculative philosophy on the matter that is actually universally panned in academia. The theories of evolution and the Big Bang do not address the question of origin. They can only take us back to a time when the universe was already in existence and the first life was already formed but have nothing to say about what came earlier and how they came to be. The "Evolution-Creation" dichotomy doesn't even make sense. It is a category mistake because one is addressing an entirely different issue from the other.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
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^^ omfg, that picture
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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this thread is terrifying
and i'm an atheist
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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There is no such thing as "atheist's mentality." An atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God or holds a belief that God does not exist. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is no common ground among atheists except their lack of belief in God. Atheists hold NO common views or common purpose but rather maintain a variety of reasons and justifications for their position - from hatred of God and religion (antitheist and antireligion atheists), rebellion and opposition against the common order (some gay, liberal, socialist, communist atheists), or atheistic upbringing (atheists in post-Christian societies), to scientism (scientific materialist atheists), or mere ignorance or misconception of religion (internet atheists who take every antireligious thing they read online at face value). An 18th century French atheist had a different mindset from a 21st century British atheist. An atheist in the Middle East may have a completely different reason for his atheism from an atheist in an ex-communist country. Asian atheists generally lack the scientific mindset of some western atheists. Atheists are not a group of people but people who fall outside a certain grouping that despite all being tarred with the same brush or common attributes have nothing in common except for their non-inclusion in any belief group. An atheist is to a theist as a non-tennis player is to a tennis player, or a non-stamp collector is to a stamp collector, or a non-conservative is to a conservative, or a non-liberal is to a liberal. Not all non-tennis players or non-stamp collectors have the same reason for not playing tennis or collecting stamps, or just because you're not a conservative or a liberal doesn't mean your views have to be diametrically opposed to conservatism or liberalism. You can only speak on behalf of like-minded atheists (New atheists, scientific materialists, communist atheists, social darwinists) but you cannot assign generalized attributes to atheists as a whole as they are all different from each other in opinion, worldview, ideology, reasoning and mindset.
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
^^ omfg, that picture
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new videos by Jaclyn Glenn, Blaire White, Tyler Preston and Sugar****
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The prejudiced and generalised thinking is amazing I've said something similiar in the other thread,Imaginge the sign read this:
"Not all muslims are terrorists? Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% are poisoned. Go ahead eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison. #YesAllChristian"
"Not all black people are criminals? Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% are poisoned. Go ahead eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison. #YesAllWhitePeople"
It's crazy how thes people practice this kind of bigoted thinking so blatantly and hardly anyone seems to bat an eye or seems a problem with it.
Also, watched Jaclyn's thoughts on the debate and I agree with most of it. I only watched the first 45 minutes of it so far tho because I couldn't take it anymore how they dodged basically every question especially Trump
And Blaire's second Islam video is spot on just like the first one It's crazy how the people in the video she responds to lie so ruthlessly. "No realtion between terrorism and Islam" "Isis are not muslims"... are they buying the lies they try to sell? Blaire was precise and level headed as usual.
But I'm willing to bet there will still there be countless people tweeting her "why do you hate muslims1!!racist!22" even though she explicitly states in the video (and the previous one) that she is not talking about muslims but Islam and does not support general statements about muslims.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
The prejudiced and generalised thinking is amazing I've said something similiar in the other thread,Imaginge the sign read this:
"Not all muslims are terrorists? Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% are poisoned. Go ahead eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison. #YesAllChristian"
"Not all black people are criminals? Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% are poisoned. Go ahead eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison. #YesAllWhitePeople"
It's crazy how thes people practice this kind of bigoted thinking so blatantly and hardly anyone seems to bat an eye or seems a problem with it.
Also, watched Jaclyn's thoughts on the debate and I agree with most of it. I only watched the first 45 minutes of it so far tho because I couldn't take it anymore how they dodged basically every question especially Trump
And Blaire's second Islam video is spot on just like the first one It's crazy how the people in the video she responds to lie so ruthlessly. "No realtion between terrorism and Islam" "Isis are not muslims"... are they buying the lies they try to sell? Blaire was precise and level headed as usual.
But I'm willing to bet there will still there be countless people tweeting her "why do you hate muslims1!!racist!22" even though she explicitly states in the video (and the previous one) that she is not talking about muslims but Islam and does not support general statements about muslims.
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exactly! the SJWs would be FUMING if someone made the exact same meme but put in different people
they like to think about themselfs about giving people "equal opportunity" yet they do and say exact opposite of that. The irony.
oh, you know there are some triggered people who need their safe space when they get challenged on their hypocrisy.
there was some muslim Trump supporter on twitter attacking Blaire after making this video.
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
exactly! the SJWs would be FUMING if someone made the exact same meme but put in different people
they like to think about themselfs about giving people "equal opportunity" yet they do and say exact opposite of that. The irony.
oh, you know there are some triggered people who need their safe space when they get challenged on their hypocrisy.
there was some muslim Trump supporter on twitter attacking Blaire after making this video.
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I'm sure there was. I don't use Twitter but every time someone makes a video like this and no matter how explicity and how many times they state they aren't talking about muslims and don't practise generalised thinking and prejudice there are always people running to make accusations.
I understand that screaming "you are *insert generic label here* " is easier than actually participating in an actual discussion but it would be nice to hear someone actually elaborate on their views and talk about Blaire's arguments and take them apart.
Also downloaded the Quran yesterday. I'll finally try to read it in full. So if I'm not posting anymore know that I've been converted to the religion of peace
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
I'm sure there was. I don't use Twitter but every time someone makes a video like this and no matter how explicity and how many times they state they aren't talking about muslims and don't practise generalised thinking and prejudice there are always people running to make accusations.
I understand that screaming "you are *insert generic label here* " is easier than actually participating in an actual discussion but it would be nice to hear someone actually elaborate on their views and talk about Blaire's arguments and take them apart.
Also downloaded the Quran yesterday. I'll finally try to read it in full. So if I'm not posting anymore know that I've been converted to the religion of peace
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yeah, and I need to start reading my Richard Dawkings book too, I haven't touched it for 3 days
I'd make a muslim joke now to your last sentance, but I don't want to trigger some SJWs in this thread with a simple joke.
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
yeah, and I need to start reading my Richard Dawkings book too, I haven't touched it for 3 days
I'd make a muslim joke now to your last sentance, but I don't want to trigger some SJWs in this thread with a simple joke.
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Which one are you reading?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 188
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
^ Are you trying to downplay the importance of philosophy and dismiss it because it is not based on evidence? Philosophy or any philosophical discussion isn't pointless at all. I'd argue that it is the most important discipline (though admittedly may not be the most practically useful). You cannot do science without it, and you cannot avoid engaging even unconsciously in philosophy after doing science (whether after conducting scientific study/research or interpreting scientific findings). Philosophy covers a much larger domain than science does. In fact, science is only a subset of philosophy. It even used to be called "natural philosophy" until 18th century. Science arise out of philosophy and philosophy continuously underpins science. Not only science, but even religion, ethics, politics, law, music, art, language, all things and all aspects of life make use of philosophy. Nothing is exempt from it. All fields of human endeavour, academic subjects and disciplines, even all sciences have their corresponding philosophy. Philosophy is the study of all things. The truth is that we are dealing with very little facts in reality. And very few things in life are based on evidence and can be settled empirically. Everything else is interpretations of the available facts or worldviews we create based on these interpretations. Our legal systems, political systems and concepts, the notion of human rights, the various religious belief and ethical systems, the justification for a particular belief or knowledge, the nuances in vocabulary, and many more things than you can imagine, they were all conceived through and are constantly informed by philosophical discussions and debates. Science is best at providing us technology that alleviates our physical suffering and gives us comfort. But all other issues and affairs, societal or individual, are resolved and settled philosophically. Science, itself, is justified through philosophy because it is only as meaningful as the confidence we place in its many methodological presuppositions. The reason why many scientific-minded western atheists are confidently quick to reject the ideas of God, soul, and afterlife and even use science to justify their unbelief in those things is because science, itself, operates under one such presupposition that the very notion of the supernatural doesn't exist even though it has not been confirmed or established scientifically not to exist. This is a kind of philosophy and is called " methodological naturalism." It is not empirically established but it is the underlying scientific principle. Science is very limited in its scope. It's very useful but still limited. It is useful for most practical purposes but it can never definitively address life's biggest questions regarding reality and existence, not any better than philosophy can. Without informed philosophy and its proper utilization, it can lead to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism exists in science too.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Which one are you reading?
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The God Delusion
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anyways, before I go to sleep now, I just saw this tweet by an ex-muslim:
https://twitter.com/pashtunatheist/s...55122812702720
and I saw a hashtag #ExMuslimBecause and there are many ex-muslim atheists who left islam and critize their religion. And a lot of them are in danger since they still live in countries that punish atheists by death
I am so amazed by this brave atheists out there who are speaking out on this issue and some people in Western society forgot it exists and calls everyone "racist" if you critize islam.
wish there were more ex-muslims that would help bring change in their society, but it's very hard to do so since they could be punished by death or face jail time.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Also downloaded the Quran yesterday. I'll finally try to read it in full. So if I'm not posting anymore know that I've been converted to the religion of peace
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Quran is very boring to read, it's all Allah repeating the same **** and threatening non believers with fire
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
The God Delusion
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anyways, before I go to sleep now, I just saw this tweet by an ex-muslim:
https://twitter.com/pashtunatheist/s...55122812702720
and I saw a hashtag #ExMuslimBecause and there are many ex-muslim atheists who left islam and critize their religion. And a lot of them are in danger since they still live in countries that punish atheists by death
I am so amazed by this brave atheists out there who are speaking out on this issue and some people in Western society forgot it exists and calls everyone "racist" if you critize islam.
wish there were more ex-muslims that would help bring change in their society, but it's very hard to do so since they could be punished by death or face jail time.
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TGD is a great read.
I have huge respect for these people hope they can stay safe somehow
Quote:
Originally posted by Bangerzzz
Quran is very boring to read, it's all Allah repeating the same **** and threatening non believers with fire
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This is what I expect to find. Ugh, religious texts are SO predictable
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Also watched the video of Tyler responding to that crazy Christian lady.
She must be a parody because I refuse to believe people this stupid still exists
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