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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I really think you're missing the point. MAGA doesn't make him a nationalist fascist, his entire body of proposals as a whole does. Additionally I'll remind you that we are indeed just now moving on from the biggest economic downturn since that Depression. Hillary supports gay marriage and has actually supported LGBT rights since 1999, but more importantly her style of politics should be the only one that is practiced - common sense, realistic, pragmatic. Donald wanting to expel 12 million undocumented immigrants unilaterally is actually a very bad idea and one that literally cannot be accomplished, as numerous analyses have concluded. His Muslim ban proposal is discriminatory and offensive. His statements on abortion are discriminatory and offensive - and actually without much modern political precedent in the US. We should not accept the idea that a scapegoat is needed, particularly not one who has done so much good for this country.
Donald has no potential for the greater good and I am completely unable to why you might think he has it. It just seems extremely naive to me. I'm of the opinion that we fight back against negative aspects of our society, not suffer even more for any period of time to wait for people to realize the choice they're making is dangerous and wrong.
I also think your view of him is entirely too optimistic. Study's have shown that even the possibility of him being President has negative economic consequences, and other world leaders have already begun to condemn him and his actions. He would exacerbate the social stratification in the US and increase the wage gap. He would be more hawkish than Hillary in some ways and he would actively destroy our diplomatic relations. He is bad for virtually every sector of American life and I honestly don't know how you can't see that.
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Well no, fascism is a loosely defined term but Donald Trump is definitely not a fascist. As far as I'm aware he's not making a huge priority of the military (far from it, despite what the media here try and portray), he's not gonna be imposing huge limits on democracy, he's not gonna be commiting mass murder against people who he probably doesn't even dislike all that much but it trying to pander to the largely racist voter he has by playing on their fears. The recession was nowhere near as devastating as the Great Depression any way you spin it, Americans vigourously support their own democracy unlike the Germans did, he doesn't have a fanatic following, he isn't calling for open violence against racial groups. The comparison is not valid.
And yeah, Hillary supports them now which is great, but do I think it's all for great purposes? No, not really. Practically it doesn't make a difference, in terms of my perception of her I will hold it against her and so will a lot of other people, seemingly. Bernie would be preferable but Hillary isn't the worst outcome, she just comes from a rotten system.
Yep, it is a bad idea and he isn't gonna be able to do it, and the abortion thing is an ill-informed position he immediately ditched once he realised he misspoke. As with most political gestures today it's all about what it shows, and for better or for worse he wants to be seen as keeping America safe. Everyone has similar ideas and tries to pander to the fear of foreigners, whether bluntly (by trying to expel them) or subtly (acting in the priority of your own nation whilst being complicit in the undermining of others). We've got the EU Referendum here, which is a veiled way of asking whether or not we as a country should be accepting of cultural integration from outside our national borders. It's disgusting, so be it, that's politics and everyone does it, whether we acknowledge it or not.
Scapegoats are needed, they're used everywhere. Nothing personal against her; she chose a bad election cycle to run in if she didn't want to be seen as a symbol of the establishment.
I think he can change how politicians are perceived. He isn't popular; his anti-establishment views are. I think that in order to move on from the negative aspects you need to change the political structure, I think Donald Trump (running rather than winning) could provide the shock needed. If you don't change, then the same problems which birthed Donald Trump will persist and no one will get anywhere.
Yeah, I don't think he'll win and I'd prefer him not to, but he has a definite purpose he can achieve. I don't think him being President would ruin everything - he may not be the best but he certainly wouldn't ruin the world - but he's better serving his role as an insurgent. It may be optimistic but this is all under the assumption that he's gonna lose, which I'm fine with. In a best-case scenario, he'd lose, and still have a greater impact that Hillary could ever have during the electoral cycle. It's unlikely, but it could happen. Don't count him out.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 7,226
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The old thread was iconic!
Can't wait for Hillary to end this primary season and eventually become our POTUS 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,846
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74 delegates to go! The US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico will give her another ~35 then New Jersey will come thru 🇺🇸
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Umm I was the number one poster of the old thread aww 
And I got warned for calling Bernie a know nothing candidate in another thread...don't know why because the NYT article clearly displayed that but okay  .
Glad Hillary is so close to clinching!
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Okay now that my meltdown yesterday is over I kinda want Bernie to actually debate Trump. He's gonna embarrass him (he being Sanders) because Trump is just not a good debater
Sanders will warm him up for Hill . One democrat helping another 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diarrhoea
Well no, fascism is a loosely defined term but Donald Trump is definitely not a fascist. As far as I'm aware he's not making a huge priority of the military (far from it, despite what the media here try and portray), he's not gonna be imposing huge limits on democracy, he's not gonna be commiting mass murder against people who he probably doesn't even dislike all that much but it trying to pander to the largely racist voter he has by playing on their fears. The recession was nowhere near as devastating as the Great Depression any way you spin it, Americans vigourously support their own democracy unlike the Germans did, he doesn't have a fanatic following, he isn't calling for open violence against racial groups. The comparison is not valid.
And yeah, Hillary supports them now which is great, but do I think it's all for great purposes? No, not really. Practically it doesn't make a difference, in terms of my perception of her I will hold it against her and so will a lot of other people, seemingly. Bernie would be preferable but Hillary isn't the worst outcome, she just comes from a rotten system.
Yep, it is a bad idea and he isn't gonna be able to do it, and the abortion thing is an ill-informed position he immediately ditched once he realised he misspoke. As with most political gestures today it's all about what it shows, and for better or for worse he wants to be seen as keeping America safe. Everyone has similar ideas and tries to pander to the fear of foreigners, whether bluntly (by trying to expel them) or subtly (acting in the priority of your own nation whilst being complicit in the undermining of others). We've got the EU Referendum here, which is a veiled way of asking whether or not we as a country should be accepting of cultural integration from outside our national borders. It's disgusting, so be it, that's politics and everyone does it, whether we acknowledge it or not.
Scapegoats are needed, they're used everywhere. Nothing personal against her; she chose a bad election cycle to run in if she didn't want to be seen as a symbol of the establishment.
I think he can change how politicians are perceived. He isn't popular; his anti-establishment views are. I think that in order to move on from the negative aspects you need to change the political structure, I think Donald Trump (running rather than winning) could provide the shock needed. If you don't change, then the same problems which birthed Donald Trump will persist and no one will get anywhere.
Yeah, I don't think he'll win and I'd prefer him not to, but he has a definite purpose he can achieve. I don't think him being President would ruin everything - he may not be the best but he certainly wouldn't ruin the world - but he's better serving his role as an insurgent. It may be optimistic but this is all under the assumption that he's gonna lose, which I'm fine with. In a best-case scenario, he'd lose, and still have a greater impact that Hillary could ever have during the electoral cycle. It's unlikely, but it could happen. Don't count him out.
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Trump wants to increase military spending and follows quite a lot of ideas penned by a woman who believes we should reverse women's suffrage. Nobody said the Great Recessionis as bad. Many Americans only like democracy when it lets them act on their hate.
I firmly believe you "holding it against her" that she wasn't willing to apply the word marriage to gay relationships until 2016 is misguided and bad judgment. She supported the LGBT community in all ways but a simple word and came around to even that right as the rest of the country did.
No. Not all politics is about "what it shows." Punishing women for abortion and banning people from our country are real moves made to oppress and disenfranchise real people; I don't care what it "shows."
Scapegoats are not needed; good leaders can make statements and change without them. It's not her problem or fault whatsoever.
I will flatly deny the idea that Donald could shock this country into realizing anything - if they're dumb enough to elect him that just shows how little can be done for them. People should o their rewards and realize the system is NOT corrupted against them and that there ARE politicians fighting for them every day - and without having to elect this man as a punishment and as a payment for that realization.
I neither fully understand not agree with your perspective and I frankly find it terrifying. We should be looking to leaders like Warren, Clinton, and Sanders to help our country continue to grow. Donald isn't just born out of dissatisfaction with the "establishment," which I find unjustified in the first place - it's also the dissatisfaction of racists, sexists, homophobes, and more who are upset that our country is moving past their ignorant ways. The people who care on any intellectual level about the establishment are backing Bernie; some who are in the GOP force or convince themselves to support Trump. That is it.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
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Quote:
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Bernie Sanders Polls: With A Surge In California And A Terrible Week for Hillary Clinton, Nomination May No Longer Be A Pipe Dream
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Reddit 
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazare
Reddit |
I think it's funny that people actually still think Bernie has a shot at the nomination. Hillary is 74 delegates away, and Bernie is around 800 delegates away. Further, Bernie's decision to debate Trump has severely pissed off Democratic leadership [1], which is incredibly important in being able to convert super delegates at a convention. The nominee is Hillary Clinton. Let the Redditers conspire otherwise.
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Member Since: 8/26/2012
Posts: 3,733
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vision
What would happen if Bernie did win California?
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Hillary would still win the nomination.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vision
What would happen if Bernie did win California?
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The same thing that happened to Hillary in 2008. Hillary would still secure the majority of delegates with New Jersey alone. The nomination is hers. Winning CA doesn't change anything.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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If she gets indicted during the general  Democrats playing Russian Roulette with America 
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 1,396
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vision
What would happen if Bernie did win California?
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It would make Hillary's path to her inevitable nomination much more noisy 
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
If she gets indicted during the general Democrats playing Russian Roulette with America |
Good thing that's not going to happen.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vision
What would happen if Bernie did win California?
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Nothing. He wouldn't win it by nearly enough to get the delegates he needs to win.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 11,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vision
What would happen if Bernie did win California?
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It depends by how much.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
If she gets indicted during the general Democrats playing Russian Roulette with America |
Characterizing it as that is inaccurate. There's no indication that she'll get indicted given that nothing so far suggests laws have been broken.
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Member Since: 8/26/2012
Posts: 3,733
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Walter Mondale's primary opponent won California right before the convention yet he still was the nominee.
California does not decide this election. Hillary will win more states, more delegates, and more popular votes.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akil
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Which could happen given that he's angered a large portion of the Democratic leadership. I find it interesting that his purpose for going forward is to convince super delegates to support him, but he does things against the Democratic party... You think he would be doing the opposite. All he's done is give them more incentive not to support him because he's shown not to be a team player, and that's the entire point of the party system (unless you're an Independent).
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