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Discussion: Non-Hateful Christianity
Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2012
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Well, that's your opinion. I don't have a problem with you thinking that, but I find very annoying and pretentious when an atheist makes this claims with a superior view over religious people. Not beliving in God, Jesus or whatever other sacred entity won't make you superior or more intellectual than me. Religion has done nothing but good in my life, Jesus has been nothing but wonderful to me and his teachings only gave me comfort when I most needed. That's why I will stan for it.
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And you know what, good for you. If you're living your life and following your Jesus in a way that is not forcing others to feel the same, then great. You can practice whatever religion you want and you can follow any path you desire as long as you don't decide to try and use your religion to govern my state or country. If you're a "non-hateful" Christian, then more power to you. Even if I believe it's hypocritical, that's just how I feel and should not affect you.
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Member Since: 6/10/2011
Posts: 6,946
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Is this our controversial thread of the month?
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Member Since: 11/17/2011
Posts: 32,412
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Quote:
Originally posted by LouLiGa
Are you implying that one must follow the words of a religion in order to establish a path of right and wrong?
- I know that raping people is wrong because I wouldn't want to be raped.
- I know that murdering people is wrong because I wouldn't want to be murdered.
- I know that I should treat others with respect because I want to be treated with respect
Biblical hypocrisies go without saying. On one end, you have people like the WBC telling you that if you're gay, you're going to Hell. On the other end, you have pastors telling you that it's okay to be gay. Both are Christians, yet one is telling me I'm going to Hell and the other is telling me it's okay? Isn't Christianity one religion with a very defined set of rules and morals one should follow? Why are people all over the place if God made it clear what he likes and what he doesn't?
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Although a good point, it definitely has a lot to do with sociology and culture. There are still places where children marry adults and that's perfectly normal. While over here it would be considered statutory rape. There are still places where females are circumcised and places where if you cheat on your man you're stoned to death.
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Member Since: 4/22/2011
Posts: 5,090
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Quote:
Originally posted by mariska
Doesn't exist. Or shouldn't exist, rather. Christianity is a hateful religion. Anybody who says otherwise hasn't read the bible or is blatantly picking and choosing what to believe in.
The same is true for just about every religion, sans Buddhism and a few others.
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I take it that since you are making such a bold statement, you've read every religious text you are referring to and therefore can judge that they are all hateful?
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoshuaBuzz
Jesus is the most attested figure in Antiquity. You have four complete biographies based on eyewiteness account within a generation of his death, at a time when there was no profit in doing so. You have multiple copies and translations of these biographies across a wide geographical area allowing us to cross-check for the perfect original text. We also have a creed dating to c35AD from the church in Jerusalem establishing:
"...that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8"
Here you have a creed dating to 1-2 years after Jesus' crucifixion, formulated by his eyewitnesses who risked death, and clearly affirming the key points of his ministry - at very very least, that he was a real personage with a large following who then died. This creed is formulated by the church in Jerusalem, lead then by James, brother of the said Jesus, so we can be sure of it's accuracy.
Additionally Josephus, Lucius, Tacitus, the Talmud and others attest to the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth, called Christ, who founded a Jewish sect at the time the Bible said he did.
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But that isn't proof. Eyewitness accounts of Jesus historically are only from christian writings, which is ironic because the Gospel of Peter which was deemed unreliable and not included in the bible described the gospels (where the death and resurrection are located) completely different.
Not to mention there has been a lot of "eyewitness" accounts for religious figures that incorporate the death and resurrection predating Jesus entirely (Krishna, Dionysus, Attis of Phrygia, Horus, Osiris etc.)
So no, not proof he existed.
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Posts: 3,155
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Quote:
Originally posted by G4L
I take it that since you are making such a bold statement, you've read every religious text you are referring to and therefore can judge that they are all hateful?
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You don't have to read every page of the Bible or the Qu'Ran to realize that they are hateful texts. A couple of hateful passages are enough.
And please note that he said "just about every religion," not "every religion." He was very careful not to make gross generalizations, unlike certain people.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2012
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Originally posted by G4L
I take it that since you are making such a bold statement, you've read every religious text you are referring to and therefore can judge that they are all hateful?
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This goes both ways. Even if the Bible contained just one hateful passage, it would contradict and invalidate Jesus' so-called message of universal love and acceptance.
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Member Since: 4/24/2011
Posts: 7,635
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I agree with what someone said about how alot of Christians are indoctrinated from their parents and such.
But that's not to say one can't decide for themselves. I was brought up like that, confirmed, the whole 9 yards. So essentially I didn't have a choice. But, now that I'm older I do. I find it really hard to talk about with other people, because I think beliefs should be something someone figures outbound their own, away from people persuading with their opinions.
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Member Since: 6/15/2011
Posts: 41,028
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Quote:
Originally posted by (Cole)
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The various passages that talk about how being gay is bad.
The various passages that talk about how women are essentially worthless and/or property.
The various passages that talk about stoning people to death if they get divorced, or eat pork, or wearing clothes of mixed fabrics.
...And that's barely scratching the surface. Christianity is a religion that revolves around intolerance. That is not an opinion; it is clearly stated in its scriptures.
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What is this?
Has he ever read the bible?
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by LouLiGa
And you know what, good for you. If you're living your life and following your Jesus in a way that is not forcing others to feel the same, then great. You can practice whatever religion you want and you can follow any path you desire as long as you don't decide to try and use your religion to govern my state or country. If you're a "non-hateful" Christian, then more power to you. Even if I believe it's hypocritical, that's just how I feel and should not affect you.
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And I do agree that religion shouldn't affect politics. I speek for Brazil for example, even though we're one of the biggest Catholics countries in the world and the religion is penetrated in our culture (forever), they don't affect in our political and legislative decisions. They protest, and how they do, but the decisions always take a rational basis, not spiritual and cultural.
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Member Since: 4/24/2011
Posts: 7,635
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But, even if I'm personally not "Christian" in a sense, I think religion is valuable. It gives people something to believe in that's bigger than them. Gives them hope and faith.
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Member Since: 4/6/2011
Posts: 31,849
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Quote:
Originally posted by LouLiGa
This goes both ways. Even if the Bible contained just one hateful passage, it would contradict and invalidate Jesus' so-called message of universal love and acceptance.
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Well Jesus himself never did anything hateful and any follower of the bible knows that we are supposed to try and live in his image.
He was wise, tolerant, loving, kind
and always helped those who were truly in need. How people can speak against this man is just beyond me
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Posts: 3,155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loghen
What is this?
Has he ever read the bible?
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Yup, I have (unfortunately).
The homosexuality passages are from Leviticus, as well as Romans (and a few others):
Romans 1:
(26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
The passages about pork and mixed fabrics are also from Leviticus.
Some major women-hating passages are from Corinthians and Timothy:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
1 Timothy 2:11-14
“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
And there are more.
Please don't make assumptions. I wouldn't make posts if I didn't know what I was talking about.
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loghen
What is this?
Has he ever read the bible?
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Second part is obviously leviticus, and while Christians can run and say it doesn't imply to them, it's still established in the bible.
But anyways...
Quote:
1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God
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Quote:
1 Corinthians 11:7 - 9
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
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Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35
34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
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Quote:
Ephesians 5:22 - 25
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2008
Posts: 21,933
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Hmm...there are Unitarians who pretty much accept everyone so yes. This "God is love" thing people always say is definitely not supported by the bible and I firmly believe that the Westboro Baptist Church people are in fact real Christians. They pick and choose the things they want to follow in the bible and if they are no different that other southern baptists.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2012
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustAHolyFool
I agree with what someone said about how alot of Christians are indoctrinated from their parents and such.
But that's not to say one can't decide for themselves. I was brought up like that, confirmed, the whole 9 yards. So essentially I didn't have a choice. But, now that I'm older I do. I find it really hard to talk about with other people, because I think beliefs should be something someone figures outbound their own, away from people persuading with their opinions.
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Humans are a very stubborn species, as are most species actually. When we're taught something from the beginning of our lives, it's not easy to just shake it off. For me, I wasn't indoctrinated. Although my parents are Christian, they never told me that I had to be a Christian. Unfortunately, however, you can't say that for most Christian families in the US. It's not easy for those who have been indoctrinated to "decide for themselves". When it's all you know and you've been told all of your life that it is right, you can't just change your mind.
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Member Since: 4/6/2011
Posts: 31,849
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hazzard
Hmm...there are Unitarians who pretty much accept everyone so yes. This "God is love" thing people always say is definitely not supported by the bible and I firmly believe that the Westboro Baptist Church people are in fact real Christians. They pick and choose the things they want to follow in the bible and if they are no different that other southern baptists.
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The Westboro babtist church represents everything that Christianity stands against
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 10,399
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by feuxtography
Second part is obviously leviticus, and while Christians can run and say it doesn't imply to them, it's still established in the bible.
But anyways...
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But it doesn't actually. Leviticus and most of the books from the Old Testament have much more effect Judaism than on Catholicism. The Old Testament are a collection of texts from Jews and Hebrews. In the and, the New Testament with the passages of Jesus and his apostles are affective, relevant and accepted by our Church.
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Posts: 3,155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
But it doesn't actually. Leviticus and most of the books from the Old Testament have much more effect Judaism than on Catholicism. The Old Testament are a collection of texts from Jews and Hebrews. In the and, the New Testament with the passages of Jesus and his apostles are affective, relevant and accepted by our Church.
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Yet many Christians still use Leviticus (as well as other passages from the New Testament, see: Romans) as an excuse for hating gays. In general, I think it's true to say that Christians have taken and run with certain parts of Leviticus (again with the picking and choosing).
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