Cut out your passive aggressiveness or log out. And you claim to be morally superior than me?
Interestingly enough, I have people in my family who had humble beginnings and educated themselves to become the middle class? Knowing of that experiences, yes I am unable to comprehend that it's impossible, because it's simply not true. The scholarships are for the best and besides, not everyone has to go to university to be successful. Some people may find a niché in the market which they can fill in just about perfectly or just be exceptionally good at a vocational job.
People with mediocre knowledge or abilities will have mediocre wages. That's how it is fair, sorry if it's too brutal for you.
Your family doesn't define the a lot of people who are suffering from poverty, and it's dismissive to assume if they haven't made it it's simply cause they didn't all try hard enough. Ones experiences are not always the general reality. Scholarships shouldn't just be for those who are at the top, and simply are not anymore because of the many different requirements for each individual scholarship now thankfully. Having a college education still puts people at a higher chance of succeeding than not even if those with degrees are having more troubles now too. You're mentioning a niche as an option when it is in fact a niche and still not as easy to make proper livings in 100%.
If a child in a poor area goes to a poor school of course they are not going to get the best of education, by helping these people get to improve their education it can be fixed instead of just dismissing them.
Why did this not end the thread? Is it that most members haven't been around/aware for enough elections so far? This will happen again in another decade the other way.
then why so many immigrants doctors or engineers are taxi drivers? Explain this sis, are they dumb because they come from Asia?
It's not impossible to break the class boundaries, but it's becoming increasingly difficult, and all statistics point to the wealth concentrating more and more in a few hands.
Capitalism and trickle down economics have failed miserably and it's only a matter of time until the poor and the 99% will start to reclaim what's theirs
Because either they're illegal immigrants who simply don't play by the rules and do not deserve an equal position in the market to that of the people living in the country, or their abilities are just not needed in the free market. As said before, someone might be an expert in LGBT history and so what?
I don't think income inequality is a bad thing. It's a natural consequence of the free market.
then why so many immigrants doctors or engineers are taxi drivers? Explain this sis, are they dumb because they come from Asia?
It's not impossible to break the class boundaries, but it's becoming increasingly difficult, and all statistics point to the wealth concentrating more and more in a few hands.
Capitalism and trickle down economics have failed miserably and it's only a matter of time until the poor and the 99% will start to reclaim what's theirs
Not reclaim what's theirs. Steal what isn't theirs.
And that doesn't sound like my country at all. We have a very multiracial society, and doctors from other countries come to the UK and work very hard as doctors in the NHS. Engineers too.
Cut out your passive aggressiveness or log out. And you claim to be morally superior than me?
Interestingly enough, I have people in my family who had humble beginnings and educated themselves to become the middle class? Knowing of that experiences, yes I am unable to comprehend that it's impossible, because it's simply not true. The scholarships are for the best and besides, not everyone has to go to university to be successful. Some people may find a niché in the market which they can fill in just about perfectly or just be exceptionally good at a vocational job.
People with mediocre knowledge or abilities will have mediocre wages. That's how it is fair, sorry if it's too brutal for you.
Babe, you're not a moderator. Please don't address other posters this way.
In fact, to everyone - PLEASE be respectful to each other.
Because either they're illegal immigrants who simply don't play by the rules and do not deserve an equal position in the market to that of the people living in the country, or their abilities are just not needed in the free market. As said before, someone might be an expert in LGBT history and so what?
I don't think income inequality is a bad thing. It's a natural consequence of the free market.
but then why is it harder for immigrants and minorities and people with humble origins to get top jobs?
Where does this disparity come from?
Not reclaim what's theirs. Steal what isn't theirs.
And that doesn't sound like my country at all. We have a very multiracial society, and doctors from other countries come to the UK and work very hard as doctors in the NHS. Engineers too.
why steal? Ivanka Trump was born in riches, she did not make those money... she needs to pay very high taxes to contribute to society and equalize her advantage. It's only fair
But, rich people are selfish, they live with billions they did not earn and let billions starve. This won't go for very long, it's the same situation that lead to the French revolution. People won't stay dying while others have way more than they need, they'll start to reclaim their rights. The flood of immigrants is an example of this, they won't stay home dying, and rightly so
Your family doesn't define the a lot of people who are suffering from poverty, and it's dismissive to assume if they haven't made it it's simply cause they didn't all try hard enough. Ones experiences are not always the general reality. Scholarships shouldn't just be for those who are at the top, and simply are not anymore because of the many different requirements for each individual scholarship now thankfully. Having a college education still puts people at a higher chance of succeeding than not even if those with degrees are having more troubles now too. You're mentioning a niche as an option when it is in fact a niche and still not as easy to make proper livings in 100%.
If a child in a poor area goes to a poor school of course they are not going to get the best of education, by helping these people get to improve their education it can be fixed instead of just dismissing them.
So basically, someone provided an argument, I used an example to abolish it and you just say that 'just because there is one exception, it doesn't mean that it's not a rule that applies to everyone'?! Screw logic.
About the rest of your post: It is actually a fair point. However, I still don't get the justification for why is it economically reasonable to spend public money like that. Of course that paying for everyone will help some people but the money put into the other students, who do everything to skip classes and just simply don't want to educate themselves is a waste.
So basically, someone provided an argument, I used an example to abolish it and you just say that 'just because there is one exception, it doesn't mean that it's not a rule that applies to everyone'?! Screw logic.
About the rest of your post: It is actually a fair point. However, I still don't get the justification for why is it economically reasonable to spend public money like that. Of course that paying for everyone will help some people but the money put into the other students, who do everything to skip classes and just simply don't want to educate themselves is a waste.
What? I wasn't saying your case doesn't happen at all but it's not a general event, not sure why you are being so hostile to that concept. You didn't abolish it, you just showed an example typically used in the bootstrap type of way of talking that because 5 people make it that the other 20 that don't must have something wrong when it could be just 6 who are their own downfall. While the rest are rightful in complaining on their struggle.
That money comes back to the economy when people have more money to spend and contribute to society in higher fields. Having people in higher end jobs brings up lively hood and brings up the workforce quality I would say. I'm not saying just give money to anyone who is struggling even if they aren't taking their education serious, there has to be some requirements of course but to simply say all those with mediocre skills are because they haven't tried in school isn't true. Improving the ones who do seek better education in their knowledge by helping them get more opportunities is important.
Sorry for not being compassionate for the people whose poverty is their fault in modern Western societies. And sorry for not being 'sensitive' about it. I respect people who work hard to move up the wealth ladder as productive members of the society.
but then why is it harder for immigrants and minorities and people with humble origins to get top jobs?
Where does this disparity come from?
Let's exclude immigrants, because the disparity for immigrants is fair and justified. Immigrancy should be conducted accordingly to the economic needs of a country. The country is first obliged to protect (or, if you insist on a welfare state, provide for) its own citizens and then for people outside of it.
About minorities, it is disputed. Some say that it's years of systematic racism, others say different stuff. Personally, I don't have an opinion, however there are multiple examples of tremendously successful black people. I think America's richest woman is black.
About people with humble origins, I spoke all about it in my previous posts. Skip back and read.
Let's exclude immigrants, because the disparity for immigrants is fair and justified. Immigrancy should be conducted accordingly to the economic needs of a country. The country is first obliged to protect (or, if you insist on a welfare state, provide for) its own citizens and then for people outside of it.
About minorities, it is disputed. Some say that it's years of systematic racism, others say different stuff. Personally, I don't have an opinion, however there are multiple examples of tremendously successful black people. I think America's richest woman is black.
About people with humble origins, I spoke all about it in my previous posts. Skip back and read.
And I'm sure some of those Black people will tell you how there is a problem with how things are still. Hence why some still give back to neighborhoods they came from where they may have seen the economic failure they escaped from. Those people simply don't erase the things like terrible schools in heavy minority areas, low income housing, and more.
1. Not everything owned by the government is socialist. Period. The army and the police are not means of production or wealth redistribution but simple means of maintaining public order. They are necessary if we are not abolishing the idea of a state.
The police are public capital, so they come under the term means of production. Nice try.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jan
2. I trust that the child's parents should have the power and autonomy to control over what their child is doing. A 6 year old won't go to school himself, let's start with that . It will be forced to do so by his parents for their own good. I'm talking more about people who are 15 year old and have criminal records. There is no point in investing public money in such individuals.
Or not... And if you want to make school optional, why would you not protect the child's right to not attend? How many 15 year olds have criminal records? You sound like kate hopkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Jan
3. It's not your business to decide on whether someone's wealth is necessary to them or not. One should keep their hands in their own pockets.
Something that you need is not something that you waste. That would be an oxymoron. But you've put the emphasis in the wrong place, which is not how much money one needs but what aspects of society needs funding for the betterment of society.
Let's exclude immigrants, because the disparity for immigrants is fair and justified. Immigrancy should be conducted accordingly to the economic needs of a country. The country is first obliged to protect (or, if you insist on a welfare state, provide for) its own citizens and then for people outside of it.
About minorities, it is disputed. Some say that it's years of systematic racism, others say different stuff. Personally, I don't have an opinion, however there are multiple examples of tremendously successful black people. I think America's richest woman is black.
About people with humble origins, I spoke all about it in my previous posts. Skip back and read.
why justified? once immigrants become citizens, shouldn't they have the same rights and possibilities as everyone else? Multiple examples of successful black people, but the majority is relegated to inner cities and forced to go to ghetto public schools? for every Oprah there are 100 Paris Hiltons, aren't there?
What? I wasn't saying your case doesn't happen at all but it's not a general event, not sure why you are being so hostile to that concept. You didn't abolish it, you just showed an example typically used in the bootstrap type of way of talking that because 5 people make it that the other 20 that don't must have something wrong when it could be just 6 who are their own downfall. While the rest are rightful in complaining on their struggle.
That money comes back to the economy when people have more money to spend and contribute to society in higher fields. Having people in higher end jobs brings up lively hood and brings up the workforce quality I would say. I'm not saying just give money to anyone who is struggling even if they aren't taking their education serious, there has to be some requirements of course but to simply say all those with mediocre skills are because they haven't tried in school isn't true. Improving the ones who do seek better education in their knowledge by helping them get more opportunities is important.
If you're making a point as a general rule, one exception is enough to abolish it. I've heard of many other cases of people making it from the bottom to the top. I don't think Melania Trump's parents were millionaires and she was rather well-off before she got married. This is proof that exceptional people can make it up the wealth ladder if they have the knowledge, abilities and will to do so.
You follow Keynesian economics. I don't. I believe in the Austrian School of Economics. There is no point in having a discussion on which one is superior in here to derail this thread further so I will just leave this information in here.
1. Not everything owned by the government is socialist. Period. The army and the police are not means of production or wealth redistribution but simple means of maintaining public order. They are necessary if we are not abolishing the idea of a state.
2. I trust that the child's parents should have the power and autonomy to control over what their child is doing. A 6 year old won't go to school himself, let's start with that . It will be forced to do so by his parents for their own good. I'm talking more about people who are 15 year old and have criminal records. There is no point in investing public money in such individuals.
3. It's not your business to decide on whether someone's wealth is necessary to them or not. One should keep their hands in their own pockets.
So what happens to the 6-year-old whose parents are drug addicts?
You never require attendance, so he never goes to school, and no one is looking out for him. He never gets a meal a day because he never goes to school. Because there are no truancy policies, no one is aware of his situation.
This is the issue with cold hard capitalism. You say not to play on emotions, yet what else will inspire the most selfish to care about our most vulnerable? Do you think public schools shouldn't have free lunch programs for low-income families? Poor kids should just go to school and suck it up? And if they get too hungry, then what? Go home, since attendance isn't required, and just hope you'll get in a meal tomorrow or that week?
Humans have to be more than just animals that live on survival of the fittest, or as you crony capitalists seem to believe: survival of the richest. We must have empathy for our vulnerable, and for those of us left behind, and those of us stuck in the shadows because that is what makes us special as a species and what makes us human - our empathy and knowing that we must protect one another.
