|
ATRL: Does this site have a mob mentality?
Member Since: 10/6/2010
Posts: 3,453
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflecakes
*claims poster made a strawman*
*makes own strawman in response*
|
Then make it clear to me. Why exactly do you not think that this discussion should be allowed? If you felt confident in your beliefs enough to back them up, then this shouldn't be an issue should it not?
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/5/2014
Posts: 3,371
|
I also think you all are a little too worried about discourse. Discourse is inevitable. And it's not always kind.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Shizuka
Do you really think, either side is being tolerant of the other or having a mature outlook on what the other is saying when **** is hitting the fan?
The internet is full of immaturity, welcome and enjoy your stay.
|
I know, but I thought that was the point of things like Mods.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/5/2014
Posts: 3,371
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
I know, but I thought that was the point of things like Mods.
|
Mods don't follow every post, mods handle reports that users send out and go off user feedback a lot.
They can't see everything, they are not the omnipotent eye.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
You can't "disprove" it either. So what's your point?
|
There are very few things in life that are proven 100%.
That shouldn't be the standard definition for when something is settled, that it has been proven 100%. There is such a thing as consensus, and a point at which the matter is settled and we need to move on.
Hell, the theory of gravity is only proven insofar as someone dropped an apple 1000 times and it fell each time. That isn't to say that the 1001st apple couldn't levitate instead, but I am not holding my breath because we have reached a consensus.
You present discussion as a positive at all time, which it isn't. At some point there mere willingness to discuss a topic implies that there is legitimacy to an argument, even if none exists. Some opinions do not deserve to be legitimatized.
For example, should we be wasting time discussing whether global warming is real with morons, or should we instead put our energy towards discussing solutions to the problem. If you waste all your energy discussing settled science with ignoranTs you are holding back progress on real issues.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Shizuka
I also think you all are a little too worried about discourse. Discourse is inevitable. And it's not always kind.
|
I agree, but it shouldn't be happening like this:
Quote:
Thread title: "Do you think-"
Member: ****ING RACIST
-thread closed-
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,777
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflecakes
**** no.
It is incredibly damaging psychologically to have children exposed to damaging discussions like like that.
Imagine a classroom where the topic of the day is "Gay people: Going to hell for their disgusting abominations? Let us discuss!!!"
No one is going to leave that classroom with increased respect for gay people.
Not every opinion is worth discussing and legitimizing.
|
Also, no one suggested children should be exposed to discussions that are controversial and too mature for them. There's obviously a certain age when you can discuss in a civilized manner with other about things that are polarizing, and some people reach that age sooner than others.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflecakes
There are very few things in life that are proven 100%.
That shouldn't be the standard definition for when something is settled, that it has been proven 100%. There is such a thing as consensus, and a point at which the matter is settled and we need to move on.
Hell, the theory of gravity is only proven insofar as someone dropped an apple 1000 times and it fell each time. That isn't to say that the 1001st apple couldn't levitate instead, but I am not holding my breath because we have reached a consensus.
You present discussion as a positive at all time, which it isn't. At some point there mere willingness to discuss a topic implies that there is legitimacy to an argument, even if none exists. Some opinions do not deserve to be legitimatized.
For example, should we be wasting time discussing whether global warming is real with morons, or should we instead put our energy towards discussing solutions to the problem. If you waste all your energy discussing settled science with ignoranTs you are holding back progress on real issues.
|
Yeah, but there's no consensus that has been reached on that issue. I understand your point, though.
You don't have to "waste time" arguing with anybody. You can also:
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/5/2014
Posts: 3,371
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
I agree, but it shouldn't be happening like this:
|
They have the right to call someone a "****ing racist" just like everyone else has a right to report (and that'll probably get warned). In that case the thread got closed and a mod handled a bad situation as it should be, killing it.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Shizuka
They have the right to call someone a "****ing racist" just like everyone else has a right to report (and that'll probably get warned). In that case the thread got closed and a mod handled a bad situation as it should be, killing it.
|
Yeah, except the thread was closed. A chance for an actual discussion was blocked because someone couldn't handle themselves.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/9/2012
Posts: 10,283
|
That's just seem the Internet in a nutshell: "There are people who don't agree with my opinion, so I side with people who agree with me to show them their opinion is wrong."
But also, there are times when someone tries to pass hate speech(or something similar) as an opinion/fact.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
Yeah, but there's no consensus that has been reached on that issue. I understand your point, though.
You don't have to "waste time" arguing with anybody. You can also:
|
There IS consensus that being gay is not a choice. There ISN'T consensus on the cause, be in genetic or environmental.
As a society we only have the capacity to tackle so many issues at a time since it must be systematic to make a difference.
If a large portion of society is allowed to get bogged down on settled discussions for the sake of "respecting" other peoples opinions, then it is holding back society whether an individual such as myself chooses to participate or not.
At some point the wrong side needs to get shut down so we can move on to tackling the next issue that faces society.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,777
|
Just a few more things: I think since some of us live in a liberal bubble, when we do encounter discussions that are contradictory to what we believe, we sometimes have a quick reaction to shun it down. And that's not always a bad thing: there are plenty of outright racist, homophobic, sexist, whatever horrible thing you can think of things said that should be shun out quickly because it isn't a healthy discussion. However, when presented a topic in a civilized not-mean-spirited manner that challenges our views and beliefs, maybe we shouldn't have a quick reaction to stop it. Maybe there are better ways to deal with it.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
|
Every idea should and must be disputed. Otherwise, we would still believe that the Earth is flat and that tornadoes and floods are God's punishment for our sins (some people still believe so though!). A thesis cannot be accepted as a fact, simply because it's a thesis. People who don't believe a thesis are not "in denial" or "stupid" but just have a different opinion. Until a thesis is 100% proven, it remains as one.
I don't care if children are around or not. It's the parents responsibility to ensure the content they're seeing is safe or not.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/5/2014
Posts: 3,371
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
Yeah, except the thread was closed. A chance for an actual discussion was blocked because someone couldn't handle themselves.
|
And?
Not everything can be handled on here, there are certain things that may yield fruitful discussion but they would cause too much of a stir.
Demographics on forums dictate what discussion survives, no need in trying to force things that lead to immaturity on both sides.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by OneAndOnly
I think since some of us live in a liberal bubble, when we do encounter discussions that are contradictory to what we believe, we sometimes have a quick reaction to shun it down. And that's not always a bad thing: there are plenty of outright racist, homophobic, sexist, whatever horrible thing you can think of things said that should be shun out quickly because it isn't a healthy discussion. However, when presented a topic in a civilized not-mean-spirited manner that challenges our views and beliefs, maybe we shouldn't have a quick reaction to stop it.
|
perfect post
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/6/2010
Posts: 3,453
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Brite Lites ☆
That's just seem the Internet in a nutshell: "There are people who don't agree with my opinion, so I side with people who agree with me to show them their opinion is wrong."
But also, there are times when someone tries to pass hate speech(or something similar) as an opinion/fact.
|
This is true but I think the point OP is making also applies to these people in that they, rather than support their opinions as facts, simply refuse to partake in discussion.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
|
Quote:
Originally posted by OneAndOnly
Also, no one suggested children should be exposed to discussions that are controversial and too mature for them. There's obviously a certain age when you can discuss in a civilized manner with other about things that are polarizing, and some people reach that age sooner than others.
|
You cannot keep these discussions from children. People arguing that gay people are just sinners who chose to be gay and are going to rot in hell are not going to nicely keep their opinion to themselves when around children.
At some point these opinions NEED to become taboo and looked down upon by society so that we can progress and prevent ourselves from being bogged down by the same issues and conflicts indefinitely in the name of politeness.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Shizuka
And?
Not everything can be handled on here, there are certain things that may yield fruitful discussion but they would cause too much of a stir.
Demographics on forums dictate what discussion survives, no need in trying to force things that lead to immaturity on both sides.
|
Threadban the immature people and keep it moving, then. It has been done before.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/5/2014
Posts: 3,371
|
Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
Threadban the immature people and keep it moving, then. It has been done before.
|
Then write a mod over a thread you have a problem with and tell them that? That has nothing to do with how people react but how mods handle it?
|
|
|
|
|