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Discussion: ATRL Great Debates Thread | Is America Racist?
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,721
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannasVeryOwn
There is just as much proof there is a God that there is proof that there isn't, none. People should just respect others' beliefs or lack of beliefs, the constant back and forth is useless
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I cannot respect such beliefs.
- Religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history.
- For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women's rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
- Belief in God taps into mankind's natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out 'God's plan' or 'God's will' is a sure-fire way to absolve one's-self of responsibility for one's actions.
- As a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not superstition. Faith isn't a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
- Religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person's mind. It teaches us to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of 'divine knowledge'.
Also, what kind of logical fallacy. I suggest you watch this video -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo
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Member Since: 8/17/2012
Posts: 17,268
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Quote:
Originally posted by ririfan21
Basically you're telling me that Gaga is the one that put clothes on your back or buy food for you. You worship someone that don't even know you. Gaga don't know if you're alive right now. You probably feel something with her but that dies out. Tbh you probably felt excitement from her but nothing spiritual. You basically telling me Gaga have powers which is false information. |
You're completely missing my point. You're telling me God is a more valid deity to believe in than anything else because God is the one who put clothes on my back and buys food for me. But what if I don't believe that? You simply TELLING me it's true doesn't make it true. Just like you thought it was nonsensical when I said I feel the spirit of Gaga because I can't support that claim, I think it's nonsensical when you say you feel the spirit of God because you can't support that claim. I'm not telling you not to believe in it, but I am telling you to provide me with some actual proof other than your feelings if you want me to believe in it.
The way I see it, my parents makes money from working at jobs they got in order to put clothes on my back and buy food from me. Why should I believe you when you tell me otherwise when you're not actually doing anything to prove that's true? In fact, my parents fit all the criteria you just made about God. My parents put clothes on my back and buy me food. My parents know who I am. My parents know I'm alive right now. My parents make me feel something that doesn't die out. So why shouldn't I worship my parents like Gods? According to your criteria, they fit the bill.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 23,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by shelven
You're completely missing my point. You're telling me God is a more valid deity to believe in than anything else because God is the one who put clothes on my back and buys food for me. But what if I don't believe that? You simply TELLING me it's true doesn't make it true. Just like you thought it was nonsensical when I said I feel the spirit of Gaga because I can't support that claim, I think it's nonsensical when you say you feel the spirit of God because you can't support that claim. I'm not telling you not to believe in it, but I am telling you to provide me with some actual proof other than your feelings if you want me to believe in it.
The way I see it, my parents makes money from working at jobs they got in order to put clothes on my back and buy food from me. Why should I believe you when you tell me otherwise when you're not actually doing anything to prove that's true? In fact, my parents fit all the criteria you just made about God. My parents put clothes on my back and buy me food. My parents know who I am. My parents know I'm alive right now. My parents make me feel something that doesn't die out. So why shouldn't I worship my parents like Gods? According to your criteria, they fit the bill.
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Where you think those things come from? Everything on earth is owned by Jesus. How your parents got the job to take care of you? Jesus.
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Member Since: 8/17/2012
Posts: 17,268
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Quote:
Originally posted by ririfan21
Where you think those things come from? Everything on earth is owned by Jesus. How your parents got the job to take care of you? Jesus. |
You missed my point yet again. PROVE to me that all of this originates with Jesus! You simply telling me "well it all comes from Jesus" makes just as little sense to me as you saying "well it all comes from a magical giant unicorn". Neither one of those claims has any support whatsoever, so they're equally invalid. I have never seen Jesus, met Jesus, felt the presence or spirit of Jesus or seen any support for the idea that he intervened in getting my parents the jobs that they worked hard to get. Don't just tell me Jesus exists - tell me WHY he exists.
I'm enjoying this discussion, but I'm going to end it here because we could post back and forth a thousand times and we'd get absolutely nowhere. You will never be able to provide me with the proof I need, and I will never be able to make you understand what kind of proof I need.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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I'm convince ririfan is the pastor of ATRL  save us
OT: Yes, I do. I've been feeling doubtful lately but I honestly do believe in Him. I respect anyone's beliefs. It just annoys me when atheists say stuff like, 'oh so how can we believe some man became a burning bush?!'
God isn't even human. He is supreme. He can do anything and everything. Nonetheless, some of these Bible stories are metaphors. They're not literal. They teach you a lesson and encourage you to spread it further in life.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
I'm convince ririfan is the pastor of ATRL save us
OT: Yes, I do. I've been feeling doubtful lately but I honestly do believe in Him. I respect anyone's beliefs. It just annoys me when atheists say stuff like, 'oh so how can we believe some man became a burning bush?!'
God isn't even human. He is supreme. He can do anything and everything. Nonetheless, some of these Bible stories are metaphors. They're not literal. They teach you a lesson and encourage you to spread it further in life. |
A lot of religions tend to pick and choose what passages are literal and which aren't when it justifies their actions, I've noticed.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 23,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
A lot of religions tend to pick and choose what passages are literal and which aren't when it justifies their actions, I've noticed.
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Can you elaborate?
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by ririfan21
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Noah's Ark is a "metaphor" and sometimes it isn't. The old testament is just for the Jews and only new testament applies to today, but the "no man should lie with another man" thing is in the old testament. That kind of stuff.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 23,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Noah's Ark is a "metaphor" and sometimes it isn't. The old testament is just for the Jews and only new testament applies to today, but the "no man should lie with another man" thing is in the old testament. That kind of stuff.
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Noah's ark is still used today. By it being a "metaphor" is irrelevant. You should still have an imagine in your head on what it looks like
No man should kid with another man is true. Homosexuality is a sin.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
A lot of religions tend to pick and choose what passages are literal and which aren't when it justifies their actions, I've noticed.
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Justifying their actions?
I've legit never heard anyone say, 'I refuse to share my food. Jesus feeding thousands of people with 2 fishes was just a metaphor.' 
Some people believe it's real. Some people believe it's a metaphor. It doesn't matter what you interpret as long as you learn the lesson from it.
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Member Since: 8/9/2012
Posts: 18,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by ririfan21
It not just cause I felt something. lol.
It was the Holy Spirit. After I got filled, it places that I went after that I shouldn't been and I felt guilty because a thought which is the Holy Spirit told me I shouldn't be there. And that is what I believe. For you to stay in church for 15 years and don't get anything from the messages the pastor is giving unto you something isn't matching up. It's either you're playing or just being there to be seen. Have you ever engaged to the service? Like feel the Holy Spirit? Are you one of those Christians that goes on Sunday and act holy but Monday-Saturday you do what you want to do.
If you expect Jesus to move through your life you have to live it not only
On Sunday but throughout the week.
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Don't assume. I was very dedicated to my religion and at the time. I went to Christian school, prayed every day, christian summer camo and thought I had a personal relationship with God but now I no longer believe that to be true. I remember i stopped listening to Rihanna for 2 months because I thought she was in the illuminati  so it's definitely false that I was faking the funk.
I simply do not consider my old religion factual, rational or applicable to my life. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Noah's Ark is a "metaphor" and sometimes it isn't. The old testament is just for the Jews and only new testament applies to today, but the "no man should lie with another man" thing is in the old testament. That kind of stuff.
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That's what makes me question religion sometimes. The Old Testament is outdated. The New Testament is what Catholics tend to follow. I do not agree with some of the things in the Bible such as the discrimination against women and gays and I think there's a passage about someone being cursed with dark skin which made me shudder.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 19,723
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Quote:
Originally posted by beautiful player
I cannot respect such beliefs.
- Religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history.
- For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women's rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
- Belief in God taps into mankind's natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out 'God's plan' or 'God's will' is a sure-fire way to absolve one's-self of responsibility for one's actions.
- As a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not superstition. Faith isn't a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
- Religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person's mind. It teaches us to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of 'divine knowledge'.
Also, what kind of logical fallacy. I suggest you watch this video -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo |
- fighting wars is part of human nature, religion was just used as a tool to justify it, there have been plenty of other 'horrors' that have been committed that had nothing at all to do with religion
- objection to stem cell research is not just religious, its an ethical issue in general. yes stem cells could be of great use in medical research but there are thousands of ways people can reject its use. as far as I know only the catholic church object to contraception, and after the advent of Islam was the first time women had any rights in Arabia, the right to own property, the right to work and earn her own money, the right to divorce.
- in Islam its every humans obligation to pursue knowledge, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said, 'Seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim, male and female' so basing decisions on evidence and reason is part of being a muslim. Muslim scientists, mathematicians and scholars have made great contributions to science.
coming to the conclusion that every religious person is ignorant or superstitious or not just as committed to seeking knowledge about the world is ignorant itself. there are plenty of scientists who are religious, as religion and science are not mutually exclusive. I can believe in God and still believe in evolution and the big bang ( islam and evolution is not incompatible). so instead of simply dismissing every religion as ignorance why not research each religion's stance on the creationism vs evolution debate?
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Member Since: 8/9/2012
Posts: 18,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
That's what makes me question religion sometimes. The Old Testament is outdated. The New Testament is what Catholics tend to follow. I do not agree with some of the things in the Bible such as the discrimination against women and gays and I think there's a passage about someone being cursed with dark skin which made me shudder.
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There are multiple (3 or 4) lines that equate darks kin with being evil or negative in the bible. My black ass refuses lol.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 23,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by RudeBoyy
Don't assume. I was very dedicated to my religion and at the time. I went to Christian school, prayed every day, christian summer camo and thought I had a personal relationship with God but now I no longer believe that to be true. I remember i stopped listening to Rihanna for 2 months because I thought she was in the illuminati so it's definitely false that I was faking the funk.
I simply do not consider my old religion factual, rational or applicable to my life. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Why you stop trusting him?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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Quote:
Originally posted by beautiful player
I cannot respect such beliefs.
- Religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history.
- For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women's rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
- Belief in God taps into mankind's natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out 'God's plan' or 'God's will' is a sure-fire way to absolve one's-self of responsibility for one's actions.
- As a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not superstition. Faith isn't a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
- Religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person's mind. It teaches us to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of 'divine knowledge'.
Also, what kind of logical fallacy. I suggest you watch this video -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo |
Quote:
Originally posted by shelven
You missed my point yet again. PROVE to me that all of this originates with Jesus! You simply telling me "well it all comes from Jesus" makes just as little sense to me as you saying "well it all comes from a magical giant unicorn". Neither one of those claims has any support whatsoever, so they're equally invalid. I have never seen Jesus, met Jesus, felt the presence or spirit of Jesus or seen any support for the idea that he intervened in getting my parents the jobs that they worked hard to get. Don't just tell me Jesus exists - tell me WHY he exists.
I'm enjoying this discussion, but I'm going to end it here because we could post back and forth a thousand times and we'd get absolutely nowhere. You will never be able to provide me with the proof I need, and I will never be able to make you understand what kind of proof I need.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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I don't believe in God anymore. I disagree with the concept from a moral perspective. As things go in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc., just being a good person isn't enough to get into heaven; you have to be a good person and worship God. That just strikes me as ****ed up, sorry.
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Member Since: 8/9/2012
Posts: 18,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by ririfan21
Why you stop trusting him? |
because this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
I don't believe in God anymore. I disagree with the concept from a moral perspective. As things go in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc., just being a good person isn't enough to get into heaven; you have to be a good person and worship God. That just strikes me as ****ed up, sorry.
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+ you can be a bad person as long as you repent and worship God before you die. But if you're a great person your whole life it's irrelevant if you don't believe in God.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 23,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by RudeBoyy
because this:
+ you can be a bad person as long as you repent and worship God before you die. But if you're a great person your whole life it's irrelevant if you don't believe in God.
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Why wouldn't you want to worship someone who died for you? He went through a lot to die for our sins. So you want to go to hell because you don't want to worship him and live right?
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Do you believe he is coming back? What if he come back and your life isn't right? What if you die unexpectedly? It would be to late then.…
And you are correct even good people that don't have God in there lives or live for him? Go to hell. If you are not living for God and living how you want you are going to hell.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. But it's so much better to live for him then living how you want too. But it may be tough because the world is full of sin but it would be an amazing prize at the end.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by RudeBoyy
because this:
+ you can be a bad person as long as you repent and worship God before you die. But if you're a great person your whole life it's irrelevant if you don't believe in God.
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