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Discussion: Why did Billboard ruin the Urban charts?
Member Since: 6/1/2010
Posts: 65,177
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People are still not giving me any reasons why "Mirrors" and "Royals" were excluded from the list.
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Member Since: 11/10/2011
Posts: 14,820
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I understand where they're coming from. For example, although Thrift Shop wasn't hugely popular with urban listeners, it was definitely the most popular hip hop song in the country overall at the time. Even old people know Thrift Shop, whilst they don't know who A$AP Rocky, Rick Ross, etc. are. Billboard made the change to the genre charts because they want to try and represent what songs of each genre are most popular in the country overall, not just with hip hop fans.
However, I do hope more hip hop artists like J Cole, Kendrick, etc. can get played on pop radio...
Also, with regards to Gangnam Style and I Cry, those songs aren't hip hop, but they do have rapping on them (technically it's MC'ing if it's on a dance beat I suppose). On rap songs even when it was airplay-based, people like Pitbull, Flo Rida and LMFAO charted well on it, since it used to be rhythmic+urban airplay, and Pitbull, LMFAO and Flo Rida got good airplay on rhythmic.
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Member Since: 8/6/2012
Posts: 2,594
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Things like this usually don't get to me, but I thought it was a disgrace to see Macklemore winning awards over Kendrick. I know this thread is not about awards but macklemore is being discussed and it reminded me of it.. lol
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Member Since: 11/12/2011
Posts: 4,529
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
I understand where they're coming from. For example, although Thrift Shop wasn't hugely popular with urban listeners, it was definitely the most popular hip hop song in the country overall at the time. Even old people know Thrift Shop, whilst they don't know who A$AP Rocky, Rick Ross, etc. are. Billboard made the change to the genre charts because they want to try and represent what songs of each genre are most popular in the country overall, not just with hip hop fans.
However, I do hope more hip hop artists like J Cole, Kendrick, etc. can get played on pop radio...
Also, with regards to Gangnam Style and I Cry, those songs aren't hip hop, but they do have rapping on them (technically it's MC'ing if it's on a dance beat I suppose). On rap songs even when it was airplay-based, people like Pitbull, Flo Rida and LMFAO charted well on it, since it used to be rhythmic+urban airplay, and Pitbull, LMFAO and Flo Rida got good airplay on rhythmic.
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I think he has the best chance. I hear Crooked Smile pretty often on the main pop station where I live, and it sounds good. I wish they'd have given more of a push to Power Trip though.
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Member Since: 10/1/2011
Posts: 53,790
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Yeah,
LMFAO, Pitbull, Flo Rida, etc. still used to chart in the Top 3 on Rap Songs even when it was airplay only because of Rhythmic being counted, so the inclusion of Rap Songs in this entire argument is irrelevant.
Rhythmic was and will always be the format that will allow even the most poppiest Pop songs to chart on the Rap Songs chart.
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Member Since: 4/2/2010
Posts: 17,951
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cap10Planet
People are still not giving me any reasons why "Mirrors" and "Royals" were excluded from the list.
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Because the Billboard ~sorter didn't label them R&B/Hip-Hop.
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Member Since: 11/10/2011
Posts: 14,820
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cap10Planet
People are still not giving me any reasons why "Mirrors" and "Royals" were excluded from the list.
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If I were in charge I would've included both those songs definitely.
Mirrors not being included was extremely stupid, however, I think the reason why is because when it came out everybody was like "Yay, it's more poppy than Suit & Tie, this is what we wanted from Justin", so Billboard thought it was a pop song. I think the people who work at Billboard maybe don't know the musical characteristics of what makes a hip hop beat, because Mirrors and Royals but clearly use them (Mirrors even has beat-boxing in the beat...).
And with Royals and Mirrors, by the time they took off on urban radio, they had already been in the charts for a long time, so Billboard probably thought it was too late to add them into the R&B charts by that point. However, Summertime Sadness did get moved from the Rock chart to the Dance/Electronic chart part way into its chart run, so they've done it before.
I think one of the biggest ones they missed out were Ariana Grande's songs. To me they're clearly R&B, especially Right There.
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Member Since: 10/30/2010
Posts: 8,520
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Cap10- Mirrors isn't even R&B/Hip-Hop. It's a pop song with minor R&B influences- just like it's predecessors WGACA and CMAR.
I don't have a reason for Royals- didn't Billboard classify it as a rock song? They probably had no idea how to place it. Can't always get it right.
I hope it's a group of people at Billboard choosing what songs fit under which genre and not just like one person, lmao. It's usually not that hard but with certain songs it does become hazy.
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Member Since: 8/6/2012
Posts: 2,594
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrownedWorld
I think he has the best chance. I hear Crooked Smile pretty often on the main pop station where I live, and it sounds good. I wish they'd have given more of a push to Power Trip though.
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I was a hardcore J. Cole stan but something with Born Sinner was off. I'm happy that more people are getting into him now though.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBronxGirl
Things like this usually don't get to me, but I thought it was a disgrace to see Macklemore winning awards over Kendrick. I know this thread is not about awards but macklemore is being discussed and it reminded me of it.. lol
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Save yourself the heartbreak and don't tune into Billboard Music Awards in 2014, because white artists will be walking away with every R&B/Hip-Hop and Rap Award. 
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Member Since: 6/1/2010
Posts: 65,177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
Cap10- Mirrors isn't even R&B/Hip-Hop. It's a pop song with minor R&B influences- just like it's predecessors WGACA and CMAR.
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You can say the same thing about "Diamonds." That didn't stop it from going #1 for like 16 weeks. I'm pretty sure "Cry Me a River" was top 10 on the R&B charts years ago.
So again, why didn't it chart in R&B/Hip Hop despite being all over R&B/Hip Hop radio? Disregarding radio is just a lazy argument when people STILL listen to radio and use it as a form of music consumption. It's Billboard picking and choosing what they view as R&B/Hip Hop/Urban.
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
If I were in charge I would've included both those songs definitely.
Mirrors not being included was extremely stupid, however, I think the reason why is because when it came out everybody was like "Yay, it's more poppy than Suit & Tie, this is what we wanted from Justin", so Billboard thought it was a pop song. I think the people who work at Billboard maybe don't know the musical characteristics of what makes a hip hop beat, because Mirrors and Royals but clearly use them (Mirrors even has beat-boxing in the beat...).
And with Royals and Mirrors, by the time they took off on urban radio, they had already been in the charts for a long time, so Billboard probably thought it was too late to add them into the R&B charts by that point. However, Summertime Sadness did get moved from the Rock chart to the Dance/Electronic chart part way into its chart run, so they've done it before.
I think one of the biggest ones they missed out were Ariana Grande's songs. To me they're clearly R&B, especially Right There.
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The funny thing is that Ariana charted on Bubbling Under R&B/Hip Hop but they wouldn't let that song chart on R&B songs
Mariah Carey's "Almost Home" charted on the Bubbling Under chart too and it's an electro pop song  The Art of Letting Go also charted and it doesn't really meet the criteria for modern urban music
They let Emeli Sande chart too and she's even more pop
And Justin Biebers Music Monday songs.. I think all of them are R&B enough to qualify, yet some of them didn't chart and some of them did.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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The real kii tho, is that in 2004 when Urban dominated everywhere on EVERY CHART they created "Pop 100" so Pop acts could still get some good charting and go #1 somewhere, and now Urban is falling and they continue to help Pop expand.
Billboard is so ignorant it's not even hard to notice.
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Member Since: 1/2/2012
Posts: 22,450
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Quote:
Originally posted by iHypeMusic
The real kii tho, is that in 2004 when Urban dominated everywhere on EVERY CHART they created "Pop 100" so Pop acts could still get some good charting and go #1 somewhere, and now Urban is falling and they continue to help Pop expand.
Billboard is so ignorant it's not even hard to notice. |
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Quote:
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The Pop 100 used only mainstream radio impressions data
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And people complain that it'd be unfair if R&B/Hip-Hop Songs only included Urban airplay.
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Member Since: 4/2/2010
Posts: 17,951
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cap10Planet
You can say the same thing about "Diamonds." That didn't stop it from going #1 for like 16 weeks. I'm pretty sure "Cry Me a River" was top 10 on the R&B charts years ago.
So again, why didn't it chart in R&B/Hip Hop despite being all over R&B/Hip Hop radio? Disregarding radio is just a lazy argument when people STILL listen to radio and use it as a form of music consumption. It's Billboard picking and choosing what they view as R&B/Hip Hop/Urban.
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!!!
Like, BRIGHT IDEA! Why not let radio choose what is R&B/Hip-Hop/Country/Rock/Alternative for their proper format?!
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Honey
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And people complain that it'd be unfair if R&B/Hip-Hop Songs only included Urban airplay
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Billboard is so wack 
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Member Since: 10/30/2010
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeamMeUp
!!!
Like, BRIGHT IDEA! Why not let radio choose what is R&B/Hip-Hop/Country/Rock/Alternative for their proper format?!
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lol, what's the difference? The radio PD's are just one person too.
Except that radio is dying AND those particular formats always play songs by their core artists regardless of genre so how is that fair? Taylor Swift is *****d out on country radio with her pop songs, Beyonce's Irreplaceable went #1 on Urban radio for a billion weeks and IIWAB almost made the Top 10....both those songs are straight up pop. But because the program director feels like they need to play every Beyonce song on Urban radio, it should rank high on the chart?
There's no way for everything to be perfect but Billboard's current chart is the best that it can be. The old way really makes no sense in the new digital world.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
lol, what's the difference? The radio PD's are just one person too.
Except that radio is dying AND those particular formats always play songs by their core artists regardless of genre so how is that fair? Taylor Swift is *****d out on country radio with her pop songs, Beyonce's Irreplaceable went #1 on Urban radio for a billion weeks and IIWAB almost made the Top 10....both those songs are straight up pop. But because the program director feels like they need to play every Beyonce song on Urban radio, it should rank high on the chart?
There's no way for everything to be perfect but Billboard's current chart is the best that it can be. The old way really makes no sense in the new digital world.
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Radio isn't dying?
Audience impressions are at an all-time high, just this year the record for the most in one week was broken.
That obviously has do with the radio shoving songs down your face more, but also spin records are constantly being broken and formats/panels continue to grow.
I could be wrong, but it seems too healthy to be on it's way to the grave. Not when 20 years ago, 91 million audience impressions was the record and now 228 million in a week is.
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Member Since: 1/2/2012
Posts: 22,450
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Member Since: 1/2/2012
Posts: 22,450
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
There's no way for everything to be perfect but Billboard's current chart is the best that it can be. The old way really makes no sense in the new digital world.
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The Billboard 200 doesn't make any sense in the "new digital world" either, and yet Billboard has done **** to fix that.
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