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Poll: More legendary: Cher or Madonna?
View Poll Results: More legendary?
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Cher
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![](images/polls/bar2-l.gif) ![](images/polls/bar2.gif) ![](images/polls/bar2-r.gif)
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56 |
36.60% |
Madonna
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![](images/polls/bar3-l.gif) ![](images/polls/bar3.gif) ![](images/polls/bar3-r.gif)
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97 |
63.40% |
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 12,604
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
One of, not the greatest. But you asked for a time when Cher dominated film like Madge dominated music, and I said he 80s. I think that point still stands. ![@michael.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/atrlers/micheal_zps45ccf519.gif)
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Whatever makes you happy, I guess
Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
Yes, and I thought it was a stupid point, hence my post.
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Stupid? How?
Maybe you should take the context into account hun ![toofunny3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny3_zps08814413.gif)
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nhật Thực
OMG this whole post just showed me a whole new level of you delusion, you undoubtedly call someone's work iconic iconic iconic iconic.......just because they're your fave, this childish attitude reminds me of some fanbase that i don't want to name here ![rolleyes](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) i expect something better from you rather than these cliches praising words, you should spend more of your energy to find out some more solid proofs, excuses, info to defend for your fave instead of complain about my knowledge
i'm sorry, so sorry for trying but failed to realize cher influences on britney and even the bodysuit that you cited before, the only two female who have influences on britney i can realize is Madonna and Janet but i think i should agree with you that the magazine cover of chers is more iconic than Diana bodysuit if it can satisfy your delusion
lol, you still haven't yet answered my question about how she made Bob Mackie famous has any influences on the next generation's look, fashion ? she was his muse that doesn't mean she popularised him. and for your infomation, Bob mackie had already been a famous designer to celebrities with his work with Mitzi Gaynor, The Supremes, Carol Burnett, Diana Ross, Barbra Streisand........before he met cher, your statement sounds ridiculously like lady gaga's fans say that she helped popularizing Alexander Mc queen lol
cher can be successful and to shock people for her acting skill, that's good for her, but that doesn't mean she inspired nowadays female artists to jump into acting career because there're many female singers, actresses made the shifts between acting and singing before her, Dusty Springfield ,Brigitte Bardot, Julie London for example
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Her influence is spread out over six different decades, lol. She's not iconic because I said she is. I'm saying she's iconic because she is. She's a legend in the entertainment industry and that is unarguable, lol. There's no delusion on my part, lol. There's a lot of ignorance on yours, however.
Cher's Time magazine cover is one of the most iconic covers by any artist/musician, lol. The fact that you fail to recognize that is your own problem. Let me point out that you don't get to claim what is and what isn't iconic, classic, legendary, etc. The public as a whole determines that; an artist's longevity and ability to sell determines that. The amount of times an artist's photos/music/films are referenced determines that. Moving on, if Britney wasn't influenced by Cher even a tad, she would have never covered a song by hers nor would she have dressed like her. Is that too difficult for you to understand? It's really so simple.
Did Madonna not wear Bob Mackie to the Oscars after Cher wore two iconic looks he designed for her to two separate Oscar ceremonies? The fact that his designs for Cher got so much press during the Oscars probably inspired Madonna to ask him to design for her. She could have gone to any designer to dress like Marilyn. You can even say that Bob Mackie's designs for Cher are very brave and bold. Did Gaga not bring back the same grandeur with her clothing/costumes during her peak? Did the likes of Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj not follow suit? Bob Mackie's name is attached to Cher. He is more known for his collaboration with Cher than any of those women you named, lol. That's a fact.
Cher absolutely played a part in inspiring women after her to cross media formats, lol. I'm not saying no one has ever done it before her. ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif) She had great levels of success in every format she worked in, and stars today definitely want the same level of success.
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bríseis
Just like you cant state that she would be a label puppet if she debuted in the 60s, right? That was my point
Freedom to speak your mind on social networks is one thing (sure, some girls dont have even that), but if someone is free to make decisions in their private life doesnt mean she/he has the same freedom in work. Being a label puppet means that the person has a very limited right to make work related decisions - the label decides which songs will the star sing, which songs make the album, choses the producers she works with, makes promo deals without consulting it with her beforehand and so on.
Many label puppets make some decisions over their style and image, but that doesnt mean its not controlled, manipulated or censored to make it marketable. How? Most label puppets are pampered, surrounded by yes men and people who sweet talk and manipulate them into making things that will bring the most profit for them and label they work for. Thats their job.
Half of those stars you have mentioned as your examples of women in charge of their careers are label puppets.
And its not only about women. Many male stars also are and were label puppets. The Beatles, Timberlake etc. srarted as label puppets and it took them many years to take carge of their careers.
Also you are confusing two different things here. In Chers or Tinas case its a very different situation. It was not about being label puppets in their case, they were simply in a relationship with abusive control freaks who wanted to have a total controll over all aspects of their life. But thats a very different social issue. You cant compare being a label puppet with domestic abuse of women. Of course when they freed themselves from their controlling husbands they also gained much more control not only in their professional, but also private life. Just like many women all over the world who managed to escape from disfunctional marriages to abusive men, but I doubt they thought about Cher or Tina when they did it, they simply wanted to protect themselves or their kids. That has nothing to do with this.
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Madonna would have been a label puppet during the beginning of her career. Every artist that signs a recording contract starts out as a puppet. I wasn't wrong by saying that.
Yes, I understand what a label puppet is, but most of the women I listed have vocally expressed their involvement with their music, with the exception of Rihanna. Tell me who you think is and isn't. Adele and Taylor are definitely not puppets by any means. They are both signed to smaller record labels and this grants them far more freedom than the other women I listed. Katy chooses to work with Dr. Luke, and she knows when the right time will be for her to take serious music risks (or so she says). Gaga obviously is surrounded by yes men, but that's through her own choice. She severed ties with most of her original team.
They were puppets, because they sang what they were told to sing. They may not have been puppets to the label execs, but that's only because the execs didn't need to manipulate them as they were already controlled by their husbands. Why didn't they become puppets after freeing themselves? They were strong enough to rise above such control, because past experiences made them wiser. I totally believe that both were inspiration to many women looking to separate from their husbands. It's easier said than done, and sometimes you need to see examples of success stories before you're brave enough to try yourself. That is what both offered to many women in need.
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Member Since: 2/9/2012
Posts: 10,283
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Madonna, since her career isn't limited to gay clubs and ATRL.
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Member Since: 12/15/2011
Posts: 9,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brite Lites ☆
Madonna, since her career isn't limited to gay clubs and ATRL.
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cher's tour has earned $55 million... and that was just the first leg
she's heading to be the highest earning tour of 2014 ![Celestial 5](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/9b5f67d8.gif)
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Member Since: 12/10/2008
Posts: 1,964
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Why is this even a question? Of course Madonna. I love Cher but I don't think she is that big internationally.
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 13,357
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quietly Trek
Her influence is spread out over six different decades, lol. She's not iconic because I said she is. I'm saying she's iconic because she is. She's a legend in the entertainment industry and that is unarguable, lol. There's no delusion on my part, lol. There's a lot of ignorance on yours, however.
Cher's Time magazine cover is one of the most iconic covers by any artist/musician, lol. The fact that you fail to recognize that is your own problem. Let me point out that you don't get to claim what is and what isn't iconic, classic, legendary, etc. The public as a whole determines that; an artist's longevity and ability to sell determines that. The amount of times an artist's photos/music/films are referenced determines that. Moving on, if Britney wasn't influenced by Cher even a tad, she would have never covered a song by hers nor would she have dressed like her. Is that too difficult for you to understand? It's really so simple.
Did Madonna not wear Bob Mackie to the Oscars after Cher wore two iconic looks he designed for her to two separate Oscar ceremonies? The fact that his designs for Cher got so much press during the Oscars probably inspired Madonna to ask him to design for her. She could have gone to any designer to dress like Marilyn. You can even say that Bob Mackie's designs for Cher are very brave and bold. Did Gaga not bring back the same grandeur with her clothing/costumes during her peak? Did the likes of Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj not follow suit? Bob Mackie's name is attached to Cher. He is more known for his collaboration with Cher than any of those women you named, lol. That's a fact.
Cher absolutely played a part in inspiring women after her to cross media formats, lol. I'm not saying no one has ever done it before her. ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif) She had great levels of success in every format she worked in, and stars today definitely want the same level of success.
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No, she tries to survive in the industry over six different decades. the longer you continue this argument, the more you shame yourself by nonsense excuses
i have to repeat again and again that britney's BODYSUIT has nothing similar to cher DRESS except they both were made from sheer. it's inspired by Diana ross sheer body suit, stop making it happen ![toofunny2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny2_zpsb54f2d2d.gif) covering someone's song doesn't you're influented by them, if you like the melody of that song, just cover it. have you ever heared of cover bands ? Tori amos covered Madonna"s songs many times but she's never cited Madonna as influence. stop trying too hard
did i say that Bob mackie had already been famous before he met cher in previous post ? do you have problem with reading comprehension skill or are you trying to deny it ? so let me repeat it again, Bob mackie had already been a famous designer for hollywood stars and had made many iconic dresses before he met cher. accordingly, if Madonna, nicki, katy, whitney or ect ect wore his designs, that has nothing to do with cher. did every other celebrities wear Alexander mcqueen clothes because of Daphne guinness or lady gaga ? ![toofunny2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny2_zpsb54f2d2d.gif) the lack of lack of fashion knowledge alert.
let's talk about success in the both acting and music, she's never touched Barbra's level or Liza Minnelli ( oscar and grammy legend ) so let alone inspiring
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 10,514
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nhật Thực
No, she tries to survive in the industry over six different decades. the longer you continue this argument, the more you shame yourself by nonsense excuses
i have to repeat again and again that britney's BODYSUIT has nothing similar to cher DRESS except they both were made from sheer. it's inspired by Diana ross sheer body suit, stop making it happen covering someone's song doesn't you're influented by them, if you like the melody of that song, just cover it. have you ever heared of cover bands ? Tori amos covered Madonna"s songs many times but she's never cited Madonna as influence. stop trying too hard
did i say that Bob mackie had already been famous before he met cher in previous post ? do you have problem with reading comprehension skill or are you trying to deny it ? so let me repeat it again, Bob mackie had already been a famous designer for hollywood stars and had made many iconic dresses before he met cher. accordingly, if Madonna, nicki, katy, whitney or ect ect wore his designs, that has nothing to do with cher. did every other celebrities wear Alexander mcqueen clothes because of Daphne guinness or lady gaga ? ![toofunny2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny2_zpsb54f2d2d.gif) the lack of lack of fashion knowledge alert.
let talk about success in the both acting and music, she's never touched Barbra's level or Liza Minnelli ( oscar and grammy legend ) so let alone inspiring
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I am DONE at that first comment, but just to wrap things up, I love Babs and Liza, but Cher surpasses both of them in at least music, and may only be slightly outdone by Liza in film. Done if you can't even acknowledge covering a song as being influenced by somebody, though. ![toofunny3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny3_zps08814413.gif)
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Member Since: 11/20/2010
Posts: 23,541
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I love both seriously
they're equal to me
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Member Since: 9/2/2012
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreatestThing
I am DONE at that first comment, but just to wrap things up, I love Babs and Liza, but Cher surpasses both of them in at least music, and may only be slightly outdone by Liza in film. Done if you can't even acknowledge covering a song as being influenced by somebody, though. ![toofunny3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny3_zps08814413.gif)
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Out of all the wrong things that have been said in this thread (and there are LOADS of them) , this is the worst , by far. Almost a blasphemy.
Do you really belive Cher's music career is bigger than Barbra's ?? Oh, Lord(e) ......
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quietly Trek
Madonna would have been a label puppet during the beginning of her career. Every artist that signs a recording contract starts out as a puppet. I wasn't wrong by saying that.
Yes, I understand what a label puppet is, but most of the women I listed have vocally expressed their involvement with their music, with the exception of Rihanna. Tell me who you think is and isn't. Adele and Taylor are definitely not puppets by any means. They are both signed to smaller record labels and this grants them far more freedom than the other women I listed. Katy chooses to work with Dr. Luke, and she knows when the right time will be for her to take serious music risks (or so she says). Gaga obviously is surrounded by yes men, but that's through her own choice. She severed ties with most of her original team.
They were puppets, because they sang what they were told to sing. They may not have been puppets to the label execs, but that's only because the execs didn't need to manipulate them as they were already controlled by their husbands. Why didn't they become puppets after freeing themselves? They were strong enough to rise above such control, because past experiences made them wiser. I totally believe that both were inspiration to many women looking to separate from their husbands. It's easier said than done, and sometimes you need to see examples of success stories before you're brave enough to try yourself. That is what both offered to many women in need.
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As I have said, if Madonna would be a label puppet in the 60s as opposite to her career now, that would mean her personality would be different - you simply cant know what kind of person she would be if she was born 20 years earlier, as you have admitted, so its absolutelly pointless for you or me to make any statements about that
Your claims that every artist starts as a label puppet, yes you were wrong saying that. It very much depends on what his/her personality is, what kind of artist he/she is and to which label and under what circumstances is he/she signed. Or do you think that for example Kate Bush, Jimi Hendrix, Patti Smith or recently Fka Twigs, Lorde, Adele, M.I.A. etc. started as (or ever were) label puppets? Just no.
FYI, Madonna started in a punk band and then went on a solo career. M was much more artistically involved into creating her first album than Cher or Rihanna ever were involved into creating their albums, yet you claim that they arent label puppets and that Madonna was when she started... where is the logic...
Its irrelevant imo if a star is manipulated into being a label puppet or if she knowingly chooses it because its easier. The result (music and albums she releases) is still the same.
If you dont understand the huge difference between label puppets and women in marriage to control freaks who emotionally and in Tinas case also physically abused them, then there isnt really anything worth discussing. The marriage made them stronger, whats good for them, but their situation had nothing to do with being a label puppet. Lets just agree to disagree.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally posted by THEBEASTWITHIN
Out of all the wrong things that have been said in this thread (and there are LOADS of them) , this is the worst , by far. Almost a blasphemy.
Do you really belive Cher's music career is bigger than Barbra's ?? Oh, Lord(e) ......
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I´m not even bothered to reply that post ![lmao](http://atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/lmao.gif)
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,973
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They both reached the top level of legendariness ![date2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/dc5b1178.gif)
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 10,514
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Quote:
Originally posted by THEBEASTWITHIN
Out of all the wrong things that have been said in this thread (and there are LOADS of them) , this is the worst , by far. Almost a blasphemy.
Do you really belive Cher's music career is bigger than Barbra's ?? Oh, Lord(e) ......
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Babs surpasses Cher in sales, yes. I never denied that, but sales do not account for overall impact and influence, which Cher much more visibly has. Regardless, this derails from the original point of the thread, as many of these posts have.
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Member Since: 9/2/2012
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreatestThing
Babs surpasses Cher in sales, yes. I never denied that, but sales do not account for overall impact and influence, which Cher much more visibly has. Regardless, this derails from the original point of the thread, as many of these posts have.
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God, this is so subjective. How would you know ??
Barabra's music has influenced so many people over the decades ..... the fact that she can go on tour whenever she wants after 10 years of absence for exemple, charge up to $1.000,00 for a single ticket, sell out 15.000 seat arenas and gross nearly $100 million out of only 20 to 25 dates speakes volumes of her level of superstardoom.
But I agree on this being waaaaaay offtopic so, let's just move on ![;)](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/wink.gif)
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Member Since: 4/23/2012
Posts: 9,618
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Unlike Madonna, Cher has seen her share of relevance every decade since her start and she didn't have to do it by bashing anyone to get media attention.
Also, Madonna does not have a bigger hit than Believe (which remains the best selling song in the UK by a female artist). So while she may have sold more albums, she'll never have a song which as much impact as Believe.
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Member Since: 2/4/2012
Posts: 7,821
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Both are the icons, the legends but Madonna is bigger than Cher in Music catalog. Some of her early work are just ...eh
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nhật Thực
No, she tries to survive in the industry over six different decades. the longer you continue this argument, the more you shame yourself by nonsense excuses
i have to repeat again and again that britney's BODYSUIT has nothing similar to cher DRESS except they both were made from sheer. it's inspired by Diana ross sheer body suit, stop making it happen ![toofunny2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny2_zpsb54f2d2d.gif) covering someone's song doesn't you're influented by them, if you like the melody of that song, just cover it. have you ever heared of cover bands ? Tori amos covered Madonna"s songs many times but she's never cited Madonna as influence. stop trying too hard
did i say that Bob mackie had already been famous before he met cher in previous post ? do you have problem with reading comprehension skill or are you trying to deny it ? so let me repeat it again, Bob mackie had already been a famous designer for hollywood stars and had made many iconic dresses before he met cher. accordingly, if Madonna, nicki, katy, whitney or ect ect wore his designs, that has nothing to do with cher. did every other celebrities wear Alexander mcqueen clothes because of Daphne guinness or lady gaga ? ![toofunny2](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny2_zpsb54f2d2d.gif) the lack of lack of fashion knowledge alert.
let's talk about success in the both acting and music, she's never touched Barbra's level or Liza Minnelli ( oscar and grammy legend ) so let alone inspiring
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No, she's been successful in the industry in music, film, theater, and television. She was smart in that aspect. If one media format wasn't successful for her at one point, she was able to find major success in another format. For example, when Sonny and Cher's music success started to decline in the late 60s, they bounced back with their television show, which was viewed by over 30 million people during its peak. You already look foolish, because nearly everyone on ATRL agrees that Cher is iconic and she is a legend. Outside of ATRL, the media regards her as both a legend and icon as well.
Are you literally unable to understand English? I said that Britney even went as far as to dress like Cher when she was covering her song. She literally dedicated the cover to Cher, and the cover made Britney's debut album. She was clearly influenced by her in that aspect. Does that not register? My English is much better than yours and it still seems you're having trouble.
You fail to understand that Bob Mackie's name is literally attached to Cher's more than any of the previous women he designed for. The media usually always cites Bob Mackie when they speak about Cher. That is not the case with Barbra or Diana. A fashion designer isn't as attached to those two. Alexander McQueen's work is not attached to one sole celebrity time and time again. He and Mackie are two different breeds of designers. Mackie's most iconic work in the 80s is what he designed for Cher. If in the 80s celebrities were interested in working with him, the press he received for his work with Cher definitely played a part in it. Cher's influence is present.
Cher easily trumps Liza, lol. Can Liza tour sold out arenas? ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif) Cher has sold more records than Liza. Are you literally trying this? ![toofunny3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/toofunny3_zps08814413.gif) Cher is way more relevant than Liza. As for Barbra, the acting acclaim is pretty much on par, and let's see if Barbra's new album can outsell Cher's.
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