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Discussion: Atheists & Agnostics Hangout Thread.
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
Yea I am leaning towards the same opinions myself except for the part of family members deciding. I think that in no way should one be given a responsibility, or an opportunity to decide somebody fate on that level. It has to be the patient and nobody else. I know from personal experiences with my immediate family that you can never know for sure how long somebody is willing to fight and keep hoping.
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I understand your concern, but think about a case where the patient disease is 100% incurable, and you know they're suffering. Doctors can keep them alive "superficially" but what's the point ? Do they have to suffer only because they can't express themselves anymore and they did not think about making it clear when they were healthy ?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
To be fined for attempting suicide (even more so when she's already plagued with debt) is ridiculous.
What Country do you reside in? And honestly, I think the "Death with dignity law" should be put in place universally. Take Brittany Maynard's case for example: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/opinio...ancer-dignity/ -- And people may not agree, but, I think people who aren't terminally ill should also have the legal option to assisted suicide. Obviously, medical help should always be the first option to help them with their psychological issues. Medication has help hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people but not everyone wants to be on meds (anti-depressants) for the rest of their life. Plus, dealing with all the bad side effects. All in all, it's a very complex topic. |
How could you justify it though ? To doctors and to society ? Do you believe in the right to die ?
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Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
How could you justify it though ? To doctors and to society ? Do you believe in the right to die ?
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Not fully sure. Like I said, it's a very complex topic. But like another poster said, you can't stop a suicidal person if he/she really wants to do. Ultimately, it's their choice, in my opinion. Their pain is far greater than the pain their loved ones would feel after the suicidal person's passing. Depression is an illness, just like cancer is. Those who are severely depressed feel like they're slowly dying, any way.
But everyone has highs and lows, some can be depressed for a few days, weeks, months and it can subside and they're back to feeling like themselves. While for others who have been battling depression (a illness) for YEARS and haven't gotten better even after taking doctor prescribed pills and talking to a psychologist, well, I could see why they would feel taking their life would be their best option. Allow them the legal right to do so, in a hospital setting just like some cancer patients are.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
Not fully sure. Like I said, it's a very complex topic. But like another poster said, you can't stop a suicidal person if he/she really wants to do. Ultimately, it's their choice, in my opinion. Their pain is far greater than the pain their loved ones would feel after the suicidal person's passing. Depression is an illness, just like cancer is. Those who are severely depressed feel like they're slowly dying, any way.
But everyone has highs and lows, some can be depressed for a few days, weeks, months and it can subside and they're back to feeling like themselves. While for others who have been battling depression (a illness) for YEARS and haven't gotten better even after taking doctor prescribed pills and talking to a psychologist, well, I could see why they would feel taking their life would be their best option. Allow them the legal right to do so, in a hospital setting just like some cancer patients are.
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I said nobody can't stop a suicidal person, but I don't see how you could implement medically assisted suicide for non terminally ill patient.. I do get what you say though, but practically it's impossible, how can you tell the person is not having a bad phase like you say ? Sadly those people will have to do it alone..
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Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
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And as far as the argument goes a few pages back about religion being eradicated.
I'm an atheist but I'm not a militant atheist. I loath organized religion but I also understand that a lot of good comes from it for many people.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
How could you justify it though ? To doctors and to society ? Do you believe in the right to die ?
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I believe in it tbh but it's just such an uncomfortable issue to discuss. Like, it's your life. The government doesn't own your life and neither does anybody else. The issue I have with relatives deciding mostly comes from personal experiences. I don't want it to to get all sappy and all but I guess to better express myself. My mother and brother both had cancer about 5 years apart from each other. The medical care in my country being as poor as it is was useless. All the doctors kept talking about all these different diseases etc. Long story short, about a year after doing everything in every clinic in the country, she told us that she would try for 6 more months at least and then she would give up. We've all given up, but she was gonna try for 6 more months which none of us expected. If she couldn't talk at the time we would have never known.
The opposite happened with my brother who the doctors basically sent home to us and told us the chemo didn't work and we should just have him there, give him small doses of chemo at home but he was gonna die anyway. So we were supposed to just watch as he suffered and died and we've been to the best clinics in the country and even Greece. He wanted to die, he even attempted to but was thwarted. Anyway by some miracle we got enough money to send him to Israel and when we arrived there, the doctors told us that there was a pretty good shot of rescuing him and in fact the chemo the doctors had given him back home worked.
It's just my issue is that, my brother would have died prematurely if medically assisted suicide was legal and up to him to decide only cuz of bad doctors, while in case of my mom we would have probably signed off on it, if she were unconscious. So it's just so tricky when it's not up to the person themselves.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I said nobody can't stop a suicidal person, but I don't see how you could implement medically assisted suicide for non terminally ill patient.. I do get what you say though, but practically it's impossible, how can you tell the person is not having a bad phase like you say ? Sadly those people will have to do it alone..
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Yea but there is also the issue of where would one get doctors willing to assist with the suicide of a non terminally ill patient.
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Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I said nobody can't stop a suicidal person, but I don't see how you could implement medically assisted suicide for non terminally ill patient.. I do get what you say though, but practically it's impossible, how can you tell the person is not having a bad phase like you say ? Sadly those people will have to do it alone..
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But if their depression is lasting years and YEARS. Is that really just a bad phase? I don't think so. And no one who has been battling depression for many years would concur that it's just a bad phase for them. And they would surely argue that to their doctor.
The doctor can look at their medical records. See what prescriptions they're on and see if the patient has tried talking with a psychiatrist. And if all fails then assisted suicide should be a option.
Naturally, I want everyone to reclaim their power and overcome their depression or at the very least, be able to manage it on a daily basis so they can still live their lives. However, that's just not a reality for many battling the illness. It's just not.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
I believe in it tbh but it's just such an uncomfortable issue to discuss. Like, it's your life. The government doesn't own your life and neither does anybody else. The issue I have with relatives deciding mostly comes from personal experiences. I don't want it to to get all sappy and all but I guess to better express myself. My mother and brother both had cancer about 5 years apart from each other. The medical care in my country being as poor as it is was useless. All the doctors kept talking about all these different diseases etc. Long story short, about a year after doing everything in every clinic in the country, she told us that she would try for 6 more months at least and then she would give up. We've all given up, but she was gonna try for 6 more months which none of us expected. If she couldn't talk at the time we would have never known.
The opposite happened with my brother who the doctors basically sent home to us and told us the chemo didn't work and we should just have him there, give him small doses of chemo at home but he was gonna die anyway. So we were supposed to just watch as he suffered and died and we've been to the best clinics in the country and even Greece. He wanted to die, he even attempted to but was thwarted. Anyway by some miracle we got enough money to send him to Israel and when we arrived there, the doctors told us that there was a pretty good shot of rescuing him and in fact the chemo the doctors had given him back home worked.
It's just my issue is that, my brother would have died prematurely if medically assisted suicide was legal and up to him to decide only cuz of bad doctors, while in case of my mom we would have probably signed off on it, if she were unconscious. So it's just so tricky when it's not up to the person themselves.
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I don't find it uncomfortable tbh. We have such a weird relationship with death, it's literally the same thing as birth, like it's as natural. Your story perfectly shows how assisted suicide is only viable in country where medical care is top notch which is something I wrongfully take for granted. Do you think it's worth keeping alive someone that is terminally ill and can't even express themselves anymore ? Your mom was in a bad condition, but if she was able to express herself it means she at least could hold conversation with you guys, and share things, celebrate birthdays and whatnot you know what I mean ? I'm sure she was suffering but at least she had that. What has a terminally ill person who can't express themselves ? Nothing, so what's the point ?
Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
Yea but there is also the issue of where would one get doctors willing to assist with the suicide of a non terminally ill patient.
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That's what I'm saying, you wouldn't, I agree.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
But if their depression is lasting years and YEARS. Is that really just a bad phase? I don't think so. And no one who has been battling depression for many years would concur that it's just a bad phase for them. And they would surely argue that to their doctor.
The doctor can look at their medical records. See what prescriptions they're on and see if the patient has tried talking with a psychiatrist. And if all fails then assisted suicide should be a option.
Naturally, I want everyone to reclaim their power and overcome their depression or at the very least, be able to manage it on a daily basis so they can still live their lives. However, that's just not a reality for many battling the illness. It's just not.
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It does happen ! But sometime it does not I agree, but you can't really predict. Plus, who'll be willing to do it knowing there's a slim chance the patient gets better since it's not an incurable disease ?
I get what you mean I truly do, but in this case I don't see any other option that them doing it themselves..
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I don't find it uncomfortable tbh. We have such a weird relationship with death, it's literally the same thing as birth, like it's as natural. Your story perfectly shows how assisted suicide is only viable in country where medical care is top notch which is something I wrongfully take for granted. Do you think it's worth keeping alive someone that is terminally ill and can't even express themselves anymore ? Your mom was in a bad condition, but if she was able to express herself it means she at least could hold conversation with you guys, and share things, celebrate birthdays and whatnot you know what I mean ? I'm sure she was suffering but at least she had that. What has a terminally ill person who can't express themselves ? Nothing, so what's the point ?
That's what I'm saying, you wouldn't, I agree.
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Death isn't the uncomfortable issue and shouldn't be, I agree. I guess at the end of the day you're right. If a person is on life support and can't express in any way then the power should pass to the family.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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whoa, looks like I missed some good tea time while I was gone
not sure should I get into the previous topics since y'all are suddenly talking about suicide and depression.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
whoa, looks like I missed some good tea time while I was gone
not sure should I get into the previous topics since y'all are suddenly talking about suicide and depression. |
Tell us everything that's in your heart 
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
whoa, looks like I missed some good tea time while I was gone
not sure should I get into the previous topics since y'all are suddenly talking about suicide and depression. |
Speak your mind sis. We will not limit you. Keep the thread active so we draw more people in. Our lord Satan wants us to turn more people away from god
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Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
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I'm certain this has been discussed but I rarely ever post in here and I'm not searching through the thread.
As atheists, which theory do you subscribe to when it comes to how the world was made; evolution/the big bang theory or...?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihabelye
The SJW mentality is so real lmao  yall couldn't take a joke if your life depended on it, why is there so much butthurt flowing around? Everyone is offended by everything, it's pathetic. Like, I couldn't possibly actually wish for Hitler to have continued mass genocide on Jews, there were children being gassed in chambers ffs  yall are too much |
I didn't realized you were joking since you randomly came to this thread and started talking about how you want jewish genocide 
I knew something was wrong here since I went to your bio and says you're from Croatia. We literally have nothing against jews. We barely know these people exists tbh 
I didn't reported you tho. And I love dark and offensive humor, but you didn't make it clear that you were joking 
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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I've actually only read up on the theory of evolution, I know very little about the big bang or other theories for now, but I've always thought that the existence of the universe was a result of a paradox. Are there any good books y'all can recommend about this topic. I've never bothered with it much before.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
I'm certain this has been discussed but I rarely ever post in here and I'm not searching through the thread.
As atheists, which theory do you subscribe to when it comes to how the world was made; evolution/the big bang theory or...?
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I believe, as it is we don't have enough information to say conclusively how our universe came about.
I also don't see how anyone could deny evolution.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
The eradication of religion is actually something I'd like. As an Atheist I wont pretend like I don't want that but in a peaceful way of turning people against it through science and education and promoting free thinking. Not violence or by getting the goverment to force them to abandon beliefs. But I am also a strong supporter of separation of church and state. You want to be religious, have god involved in your life, fine by me. Do it at home, in church but not in public/government establishments like schools or court.
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I don't know how Communion would be okay with Abrahamic religions since he is an atheist!
Probably because he lives in New Jersey where nobody takes religion seriously like people in my country do. New Jersey legalised gay marriage in 2013, the same year 2/3 of Croatian citizens voted to ban gay marriage by law here because of right-wing christian organisation went on having a referendum just to ban gay people from potentially getting equal rights down the line.
It's safe to say that Croatia is far more religious than New Jersey so when I criticize religion, I know why I do that and why is so dangerous to society versus New Jersey who basically only believe in after-life and church has no impact on people there as it has on people here. Yet alone to Ortodox and Muslim countries, which are even worse and more religious at this point than Catholics are.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
I'm certain this has been discussed but I rarely ever post in here and I'm not searching through the thread.
As atheists, which theory do you subscribe to when it comes to how the world was made; evolution/the big bang theory or...?
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Evolution isn't a theory, it's literally a fact. An average biology student can explain with receipts of microorganisms.
The Big Bang Theory on the other hand, I am kinda torn because we don't have legit proof, so I don't really subscribe to being a big beliver of that theory, and I am open-minded for more legit proofs we get in the future.
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