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Discussion: God and Science?
Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexanderao
That's completely incorrect. The evidence for evolution is already there. People have worked tirelessly over the past 150 years, and we have gotten to the point where it is accepted as fact (not by the general public, but among scientists). I recommend this document as a good introduction to the evidence for evolution.
Evolution is able to tell us why humans exist, and explain why they were not just created out of the blue. Evolution is what created us. There's no specific culprit in this process, it occurred on Earth because the conditions here are very favorable for life to emerge. This is the case on many other planets too- in fact, many people estimate that there are thousands of Earth-like planets containing life in the vast Milky Way.
The "who" is no one.
The "what" and "why" is evolution. We are humans because of evolution, and it is what allowed us to be where we are today.
The "when" is over the last 3,600,000,000 years.
The "where" is Earth.
Again, you continue to say that because science can't answer everything it therefore is not trustworthy and we should not believe in it. That perception of science is flawed. As I have explained in several of my past posts in this thread, there are many great reasons to trust science and its ability to continue answering humanity's questions. |
you have yet to provide proof, though. Just words written by men, which is how you discredit The Bible. So...
I'm done discussing this with you. You aren't even going by your own logic
I pray that God will open your eyes and show you the truth. May you be successful and happy in all that you do in life
God bless
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Member Since: 7/15/2012
Posts: 30,915
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yas we survived the report
now lets continue to keep it cute and carry on the conversation
let me read over these posts
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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In my opinion, either God caused the Big Bang, or the Big Bang didn't happen and there is some other reality. The Big Bang doesn't make much sense.
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,021
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Frizzle
What I'm saying about proof, is that you cannot show me anything that proves Evolution, Big Bang etc to be true.
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Of course we can. Look at fossils. Through the use of carbon dating we can find out how old they are, and from there we can observe evolutionary changes that took place in organisms over time.
Today, we can see that different organisms have varying traits that help them adapt to their respective environments.
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I believe in science such as weather forecasts, biology, chemistry etc, but again. They don't explain the WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, AND WHY. There is no proof! Just scientists and their claims. You chose to believe them. 
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So what do you think weathermen base their forecasts off of? What, do you think they use their psychic powers to determine what the weather will be?
We believe what scientists say because they base their beliefs off of evidence. Scientists didn't just arbitrarily decide, for instance, what the melting point of aluminum is. They tested it under varying heats and found that it melted at a minimum heat of 1,221°F.
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Again, there's a difference between science explaining how humans, animals, weather, volcanoes etc work, but when we cross the line and say that scientists know how we got here etc. Theres some stuff science just cannot answer.
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But it can explain the diversity and complexity of life, which are explained by evolution.
Is God real? Maybe, maybe not. But evolution definitely is.
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None of the links you provided are any more proof by your logic and reasoning than what The Bible says. Period.
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One is based on superstition, the other is based on years of scientific observation and testing.
If scientists were given concrete, irrefutable evidence that disproves evolution, they would embrace it in a heartbeat. Science isn't some static worldview; it adapts as human knowledge grows.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexanderao
That's completely incorrect. The evidence for evolution is already there. People have worked tirelessly over the past 150 years, and we have gotten to the point where it is accepted as fact (not by the general public, but among scientists). I recommend this document as a good introduction to the evidence for evolution.
Evolution is able to tell us why humans exist, and explain why they were not just created out of the blue. Evolution is what created us. There's no specific culprit in this process, it occurred on Earth because the conditions here are very favorable for life to emerge. This is the case on many other planets too- in fact, many people estimate that there are thousands of Earth-like planets containing life in the vast Milky Way.
The "who" is no one.
The "what" and "why" is evolution. We are humans because of evolution, and it is what allowed us to be where we are today.
The "when" is over the last 3,600,000,000 years.
The "where" is Earth.
Again, you continue to say that because science can't answer everything it therefore is not trustworthy and we should not believe in it. That perception of science is flawed. As I have explained in several of my past posts in this thread, there are many great reasons to trust science and its ability to continue answering humanity's questions. |
Just because it could be true doesn't mean it is. I believe in evolution, but I wouldn't call it a 100% proven fact.
Science is another belief process which contains many theories which you can get 'proof' for but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be believed, nor does it mean it will be true.
If someone doesn't believe in scientific theories, it shouldn't matter, it doesn't affect you. If someone wants to believe something, it shouldn't involve you.
Attacks on a religion are often attacks on someone in particular, attacks on Science aren't the same thing. It isn't a community, people aren't rudiculed for believing in it, it isn't the same as mocking someone for believing in Genesis etc.
The Bible is about universal truths rather than small arguments, focussing on the bigger picture rather than the fine details is important.
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Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally posted by hello_world
Just because it could be true doesn't mean it is. I believe in evolution, but I wouldn't call it a 100% proven fact.
Science is another belief process which contains many theories which you can get 'proof' for but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be believed, nor does it mean it will be true.
If someone doesn't believe in scientific theories, it shouldn't matter, it doesn't affect you. If someone wants to believe something, it shouldn't involve you.
Attacks on a religion are often attacks on someone in particular, attacks on Science aren't the same thing. It isn't a community, people aren't rudiculed for believing in it, it isn't the same as mocking someone for believing in Genesis etc.
The Bible is about universal truths rather than small arguments, focussing on the bigger picture rather than the fine details is important.
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Excellent points. Kudos. I appreciate your post
Think about it like this.
As a Christian, i would get my head chopped off in many places in the world because of what I believe
Revelations even speaks of people in heaven who had their heads cut off because of their faith
If a Christian went into a Muslim country and preached Christ, their head will be chopped off
When's the last time someone got their head cut off for believing in evolution?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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Quote:
Originally posted by hello_world
Science is another belief process which contains many theories which you can get 'proof' for but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be believed, nor does it mean it will be true.
The Bible is about universal truths rather than small arguments, focussing on the bigger picture rather than the fine details is important.
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I disagree here. Science has allowed us to be able to add more and more facts to the pool of common knowledge. There are many facts that have been determined by science in the same way that evolution was determined by science. It took plenty of research and cross-checking to discover that asbestos is bad for your lungs. It took plenty of research and cross-checking to prove evolution. These are true things that are not just theories.
I believe that I am focusing on the bigger picture when I discuss the Bible. I do not trust the Bible not because there are small parts in which it is homophobic, I don't trust it because it is not a reliable source, period. (I explained this more in-depth a few pages back)
Quote:
Originally posted by hello_world
If someone doesn't believe in scientific theories, it shouldn't matter, it doesn't affect you.
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I disagree.
Think of how much less progress we would have had in the world had people not questioned traditional beliefs. When Copernicus finally questioned a heliocentric universe, he made a huge breakthrough, for example. If society just lets a huge amount of people ( 74% in America, and 98% of scientists believe in evolution but much less of the general public) use God to explain the origin of humanity, it is hindering the spread of knowledge. Don't you believe that distribution and consumption of knowledge is one of the most important things in this world?
Things like the Bible are being treated as legit evidence on a massive scale, which is reducing scientific literacy and contributing to an aversion for science (think about how lots of teenagers don't have a desire to learn about science- this is proven every day at my school).
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexanderao
I disagree here. Science has allowed us to be able to add more and more facts to the pool of common knowledge. There are many facts that have been determined by science in the same way that evolution was determined by science. It took plenty of research and cross-checking to discover that asbestos is bad for your lungs. It took plenty of research and cross-checking to prove evolution. These are true things that are not just theories.
I believe that I am focusing on the bigger picture when I discuss the Bible. I do not trust the Bible not because there are small parts in which it is homophobic, I don't trust it because it is not a reliable source, period. (I explained this more in-depth a few pages back)
I disagree.
Think of how much less progress we would have had in the world had people not questioned traditional beliefs. When Copernicus finally questioned a heliocentric universe, he made a huge breakthrough, for example. If society just lets a huge amount of people ( 74% in America, and 98% of scientists believe in evolution but much less of the general public) use God to explain the origin of humanity, it is hindering the spread of knowledge. Don't you believe that distribution and consumption of knowledge is one of the most important things in this world?
Things like the Bible are being treated as legit evidence on a massive scale, which is reducing scientific literacy and contributing to an aversion for science (think about how lots of teenagers don't have a desire to learn about science- this is proven every day at my school). |
I disagree, I would say that it is an okay source in terms of moral guidance (it's important not to just do everything it says though, free will was given for a reason). If I choose to follow a religion, there is nothing you could possibly say to me to convince me otherwise, much as there is nothing I can say to convince you to become a believer so this is kinda pointless anyway.
It shouldn't affect you though. People are allowed to believe in other 'scientific theories', but as soon as they have religious connotations they become illogical or just downright wrong. The spread of knowledge is a choice, not a necessity. If you believe something follow it, but I see no genuine reason as to why I need to believe in evolution, otherwise your quality of life will be decreased. It's a belief, it doesn't affect you.
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Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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[QUOTE=alexanderao;26532592] If you're openly atheist in any of these 13 countries, you are executed.[/QUOTE
We are a little off topic but at least we are civil 
They're muslim countries, and Islam actually teaches its followers to kill non-believers, and those who refuse to conform to them. What do you think Sharia law is based upon? Islamic laws. Bingo!
Saying you're an atheist in an Islamic country is denying their god, so it's worthy of death
You ever heard about the Muslim terrorist attack on the mall in Kenya a while back? They actually let the Muslims go and killed all the christians that had held hostage. Wronf is wrong, but Christians are persecuted everywhere.. Even in the USA. It's just not in the same violent way that it is around the world but we are persecuted. People look down on us, call us names, make it hard for us to stand up for what we believe in etc. Hello, the couple who got sued bc of them refusing to bake a cake. They were standing up for their faith.
Muslims are dangerous. At least in the USA, we give you the choice to believe what you want and we don't kill you because of it
Preaching Christ would bring a worse death than being an atheist. True . Muslims HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE Christians. Don't fall for any lies you hear otherwise.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexanderao
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That isn't explicitly targeting atheists, that's just people denouncing Islam. Not that it's right, just that it isn't direct persecution.
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,021
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Even in the USA. It's just not in the same violent way that it is around the world but we are persecuted. People look down on us, call us names, make it hard for us to stand up for what we believe in etc.
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 Poor persecuted Christians. It must be so hard to have only 33% of the entire world's population under your banner.
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Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chill Bill
Of course we can. Look at fossils. Through the use of carbon dating we can find out how old they are, and from there we can observe evolutionary changes that took place in organisms over time.
Today, we can see that different organisms have varying traits that help them adapt to their respective environments.
So what do you think weathermen base their forecasts off of? What, do you think they use their psychic powers to determine what the weather will be?
We believe what scientists say because they base their beliefs off of evidence. Scientists didn't just arbitrarily decide, for instance, what the melting point of aluminum is. They tested it under varying heats and found that it melted at a minimum heat of 1,221°F.
But it can explain the diversity and complexity of life, which are explained by evolution.
Is God real? Maybe, maybe not. But evolution definitely is.
One is based on superstition, the other is based on years of scientific observation and testing.
If scientists were given concrete, irrefutable evidence that disproves evolution, they would embrace it in a heartbeat. Science isn't some static worldview; it adapts as human knowledge grows.
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Science can't tell us anything about those fossils except maybe how old they are. Fossils and fossil age don't mean anything in regards to evolution
Weather men have technology to tell the weather. they do not explain how weather was created. Just what it is doing, going to do(predictions) and what it has done, and how it works. But that doesn't explain how weather is created
You believe what scientists say about how everything was created, not me...
I believe in science when it comes to a weather man telling me how hot it will be tomorrow, but it doesn't go much further than that. Remember, he's only telling me what technology tells him... He's Not explaining the origin lf the universe
God is not superstition and you are disrespectful to others who believe differently than you
There is no concrete evidence about evolution. Have humans and animals adapted to climates and environments over thousands and thousands of years? Definitely. That's plain to see. There's no evidence for evolution, though. Especially that we come from whales, monkeys etx
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,021
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Frizzle
Science can't tell us anything about those fossils except maybe how old they are. Fossils and fossil age don't mean anything in regards to evolution
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Yes they do.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...ticle/lines_02
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Weather men have technology to tell the weather. they do not explain how weather was created. Just what it is doing, going to do(predictions) and what it has done, and how it works. But that doesn't explain how weather is created
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What do you mean, how it's created? What, are you saying that they don't know how tornadoes and rain clouds are formed?
Because they do.
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You believe what scientists say about how everything was created, not me...
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Because scientists back themselves up with evidence.
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I believe in science when it comes to a weather man telling me how hot it will be tomorrow, but it doesn't go much further than that. Remember, he's only telling me what technology tells him... He's Not explaining the origin lf the universe
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The origin of the universe is an entirely separate matter. It has nothing to do with evolution.
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God is not superstition and you are disrespectful to others who believe differently than you
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Yes, it is. And I say that as a Jew.
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There is no concrete evidence about evolution. Have humans and animals adapted to climates and environments over thousands and thousands of years? Definitely. That's plain to see.
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That's literally what evolution is.
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There's no evidence for evolution, though. Especially that we come from whales, monkeys etx
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Okay, explain to me, in a nutshell, what you think evolution is. Because I'm not sure you understand the concept.
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Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chill Bill
Poor persecuted Christians. It must be so hard to have only 33% of the entire world's population under your banner. |
I wasn't having a pity party
If God wanted someone under their banner, He would make it happen.
I definitely don't need you or anybody else under GOD's banner, but you are welcomed and invited
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,021
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Frizzle
I wasn't having a pity party
If God wanted someone under their banner, He would make it happen.
I definitely don't need you or anybody else under GOD's banner, but you are welcomed and invited |
I'm already a Jew.
I just recognize that my religious beliefs have no place in a scientific lab.
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Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 6,781
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chill Bill
Yes they do.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...ticle/lines_02
What do you mean, how it's created? What, are you saying that they don't know how tornadoes and rain clouds are formed?
Because they do.
Because scientists back themselves up with evidence.
The origin of the universe is an entirely separate matter. It has nothing to do with evolution.
Yes, it is. And I say that as a Jew.
That's literally what evolution is.
Okay, explain to me, in a nutshell, what you think evolution is. Because I'm not sure you understand the concept.
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Clock ha ignorant ass!
Lol at "humans have adapted but there's no evidence of evolution" 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 20,010
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I can see how atheist don't believe in God, but it makes no sense for a person to believe only in God and not science.
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Member Since: 5/20/2011
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chill Bill
Yes they do.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...ticle/lines_02
What do you mean, how it's created? What, are you saying that they don't know how tornadoes and rain clouds are formed?
Because they do.
Because scientists back themselves up with evidence.
The origin of the universe is an entirely separate matter. It has nothing to do with evolution.
Yes, it is. And I say that as a Jew.
That's literally what evolution is.
Okay, explain to me, in a nutshell, what you think evolution is. Because I'm not sure you understand the concept.
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You're just like the other poster I was debating with, no proof
Jews denied Jesus, thus denying God, so its no surprise you consider God superstition. You're just like your ancestors.
Science can only tell you what the atmosphere did to create the tornado. A Tornado is something weather makes. But what makes the weather? How did weather come to be???
Science doesn't explain what created weather, just how weather works and what it does.
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Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 6,781
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber
I can see how atheist don't believe in God, but it makes no sense for a person to believe only in God and not science.
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I think religion is just the (very) easy way. To "believe" in science you actually have to read a lot and have te ability to analize and make conclusions. With religion you just have to believe that God created everything, plain easy.
No wonder why you find the most atheists in the most educated countries.
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