|
Discussion: Are you a Feminist?
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 12,120
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ties
Absolutely not.
I will break down your logic for you:
1. You are a man.
2. You cannot empathize with women, therefore you are incapable of supporting women's equality.
3. You should support your own sex rather than bother with the other.
Apply this to orientation.
1. You are straight.
2. You cannot empathize with the gay community, therefore you are incapable of supporting equal gay rights.
3. You should support your own orientation rather than bother with the other.
|
It's completely different. Gay guys are not even close to as privileged as women in society. Women do have equal rights, and usually feminists crave way more than just equality. They crave the domination of women, meanwhile gays just want to be accepted. Gays still have a LOOONG way before they even start thinking about ruling the world. A gay guy should not be a feminist because as a MAN he should celebrate male culture, not female culture. That's an obstacle for gay guys nowadays that makes acceptance harder for them. I noticed the Gay community sides with females far more than males, and that's just unacceptable considering they're males themselves.
As for the beauty standard, fighting it just promotes obesity and tackiness. It should be important to be fit, look pretty and clean, and dress well. Going against that shouldn't be celebrated.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 319
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
It's completely different. Gay guys are not even close to as privileged as women in society. Women do have equal rights, and usually feminists crave way more than just equality. They crave the domination of women, meanwhile gays just want to be accepted. Gays still have a LOOONG way before they even start thinking about ruling the world. A gay guy should not be a feminist because as a MAN he should celebrate male culture, not female culture. That's an obstacle for gay guys nowadays that makes acceptance harder for them. I noticed the Gay community sides with females far more than males, and that's just unacceptable considering they're males themselves.
As for the beauty standard, fighting it just promotes obesity and tackiness. It should be important to be fit, look pretty and clean, and dress well. Going against that shouldn't be celebrated.
|
This level of ignorance.......
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
.
|
Quote:
It's completely different. Gay guys are not even close to as privileged as women in society.
|
You can hide your orientation.
You cannot hide your sex.
False.
Women are raped and killed through stoning in society ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...unishment.html)
Gays are killed for coming out in society.
Both have their issues, but one does not have more rights than the other. Besides, there should be no amount of vitriol towards marginalized populations. They should be working in coordination with one another because they are seeking the same end goal, equality.
Quote:
Women do have equal rights, and usually feminists crave way more than just equality. They crave the domination of women, meanwhile gays just want to be accepted.
|
Merriam Webster dictionary defines feminism as "the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities."
False.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
Quote:
Gays still have a LOOONG way before they even start thinking about ruling the world. A gay guy should not be a feminist because as a MAN he should celebrate male culture, not female culture.
|
Gays should be advocating equality for, not MEN, but for the equality of orientation. If they apply themselves to advocating for mens rights only (lol) then the lesbians will be left out of the equation, as well as those that do not fit into the cis binary.
Quote:
That's an obstacle for gay guys nowadays that makes acceptance harder for them. I noticed the Gay community sides with females far more than males, and that's just unacceptable considering they're males themselves.
|
That is sexist reasoning.
"Only women can agree with women, and only men can agree with men."
Quote:
As for the beauty standard, fighting it just promotes obesity and tackiness. It should be important to be fit, look pretty and clean, and dress well. Going against that shouldn't be celebrated.
|
It is important for anyone, whether male or female, to do whatever the hell makes them happy and no one should ever mandate whether or not they should conform to the societal beauty standard. I like looking good, but I will never force anyone that is not willing to change their entire aesthetic to appease me.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/29/2012
Posts: 26,389
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
A gay guy should not be a feminist because as a MAN he should celebrate male culture, not female culture.
|
I will celebrate male culture as a male and ensure I do it in a way that does not make men anymore superior to women and will always substantially contribute to the advocacy of women's rights. Why? It's the most righteous thing to do. Just because gay men belong in a minority doesn't mean they shouldn't support or worry about other minorities...?
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
|
I'm sorry Ties but I can't address this any further considering mods are regarding my opinion as offensive. Apparently if you don't share the same opinion as the staff here, you'll get warned so I'm gonna stop myself from discussing my opinion on any social issue any further.
Thanks anyway.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
|
Actually, gays SHOULD be involved in feminism as misogyny and homophobia come from very similar roots.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/6/2012
Posts: 15,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ties
First off, you are asserting that dominance and equality are mutually exclusive. Being the dominant person in the relationship, be it male or female, does not mean that relationship itself is plagued with inequity. This line of thinking could be true had we regressed back into forms of hunting and gathering where men and women had designated roles, but society has progressed far enough to allow for the lines between roles to be blurred. That is the point of feminism.
Feminism does not argue over who has to perform the roles of the stereotypical caretaker of the household and of the "working body." Feminism argues that women should not be relegated to these roles because they can perform vocations that men excel at as well. Feminism argues that you can assume a role not based on your sex, but rather, based on your inclination to the role. There will always be a dominant person in a relationship, and some women prefer to be submissive. The problem is that all women should not be pressured into framing themselves into the submissive role based on their sex because all women are different.
|
Dominance and equality are mutually exclusive since dominance is derived from inequality otherwise we would all share the same role. But moving on to your other point in which you evoke that women should be fit to do the roles of men even those that women do not excel at. This is also where feminism is wrong because there lies the problem, if you cant excel at a job better than a men why should you expect the same reward, this line of thinking is the same people use to give a medal to all the kids who finished last just to avoid reality. That reality is that equality does not exist. Feminist can pretend it does, they can fight so that every one of them will get that medal when in fact it diminishes the real winner's achievement which can lead to diminishing returns in the workforce and suppress true talent.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Actually, gays SHOULD be involved in feminism as misogyny and homophobia come from very similar roots.
|
Exactly.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 12,760
|
I'd like to believe that my ideals say so, but I'm not very active about it.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 13,357
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NaughtyDog
Dominance and equality are mutually exclusive since dominance is derived from inequality otherwise we would all share the same role. But moving on to your other point in which you evoke that women should be fit to do the roles of men even those that women do not excel at. This is also where feminism is wrong because there lies the problem, if you cant excel at a job better than a men why should you expect the same reward, this line of thinking is the same people use to give a medal to all the kids who finished last just to avoid reality. That reality is that equality does not exist. Feminist can pretend it does, they can fight so that every one of them will get that medal when in fact it diminishes the real winner's achievement which can lead to diminishing returns in the workforce and suppress true talent.
|
Dominance is not derived from inequality. If a women is accumulating more income than a man in the household, and that man is the sexually dominant partner, there is no inequity to be had there. That is essentially saying that all people that breathe oxygen die and concluding that oxygen is a hazardous chemical.
Women can excel at vocations that men can excel at. No one is saying that you should be giving any women a job simply because they are a woman. I am saying that if a woman can perform the job on par with that of a man, then what factors are forestalling her from receiving that job? Going back to your final point that feminism "diminishes the real winner's achievement." This assumes that men are innately more qualified for the job than women, when we share the same neurotics and can perform the same jobs. Engineering, web design, etc. are all jobs that are dominated by men, but there has been a rise in female CEOs pioneering their own companies. They worked hard for that, and you are mitigating their efforts by saying that they achieved their success not through their talents in their field, but because of the "unfair advantage given to women in society."
Obviously equality does not exist, because there would not be a movement centered on gender equality.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 15,700
|
I am not a feminist - I, I hail men, I love men. I celebrate American male culture, and beer, and bars and muscle cars.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 13,357
|
Some of these posts
Y'all need an education.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 9,393
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 25,077
|
Yes. and I hate how everyone's acting like being a Feminist is a bad thing do your research before you talk out of your ass
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 7,424
|
Like a moth to a flame burned by the fire
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 5,821
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Echelon
Like a moth to a flame burned by the fire
|
My love is blind can't you see my desire
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/6/2012
Posts: 15,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ties
Dominance is not derived from inequality. If a women is accumulating more income than a man in the household, and that man is the sexually dominant partner, there is no inequity to be had there. That is essentially saying that all people that breathe oxygen die and concluding that oxygen is a hazardous chemical.
Women can excel at vocations that men can excel at. No one is saying that you should be giving any women a job simply because they are a woman. I am saying that if a woman can perform the job on par with that of a man, then what factors are forestalling her from receiving that job? Going back to your final point that feminism "diminishes the real winner's achievement." This assumes that men are innately more qualified for the job than women, when we share the same neurotics and can perform the same jobs. Engineering, web design, etc. are all jobs that are dominated by men, but there has been a rise in female CEOs pioneering their own companies. They worked hard for that, and you are mitigating their efforts by saying that they achieved their success not through their talents in their field, but because of the "unfair advantage given to women in society."
Obviously equality does not exist, because there would not be a movement centered on gender equality.
|
Yes there are jobs in which women and men are equal but feminism argues that it is across the board or at least it should be which is my point that it is not, Since its not such as in the military, construction, etc then lobbying for equal pay and/or that women should be treated the same through all society's structure is preposterous. You clearly see that inequality that cant be erased exist yet still argue for feminism.
My point is not to argue that manageable jobs should be limited to one gender it is that if its proven that one gender excels at that job more than the other then they should be rewarded more since they are more inclined to bring in more rewards for their work.
Feminism is the wrong approach, facing reality is much more sensible and that is that both genders are build differently and therefore policy and law should highlight the strengths of each not burden one another with the weaknesses of the other.
|
|
|
|
|