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Discussion: Being a minority in the gay community.
Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 4,948
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I'll repost something I wrote in the "Is it racist to only be attracted to certain races or skin colors?" thread a few months ago. I think it's somewhat relevant to this discussion:
"To be honest, yes to an extent. While no one should criticize someone else for their preferences, racial or not, the bottom line is that, yes, everyone has natural and unique preferences, but these preferences are a major byproduct of the society you were raised in. In the US and even globally, beauty in both sexes is very Eurocentric, favoring European features as "beautiful" or "hot" over features of other races. If images of "hot" white men and white women pervade advertisements and the film industry and virtually all media, then it would be natural, for the most part, for white male and female beauty becoming the norm and the standard by which all people in that society are get assessed for their attractiveness. Racial stereotypes also play a factor; African Americans are steretyped as being aggressive, which is an attractive feature in a males but an unattractive feature in females. There are stereotypes involving perceived masculinity/femininity; black men are stereotyped as being "big" while Asian women are stereotyped as being gentle and submissive. Attraction is sometimes exotification, and while no one can really change who they are attracted to, and attraction is seemingly innate, they largely reflect the values of beauty held by the society/country/culture they were raised in and continue to live in. Asian men and black women are hardly ever portrayed in the media as attractive and "hot", and on the flip side Asian women and black men are exotified sexually. These portrayals of race/gender/beauty huge impact on who or what kind of person a person is attracted to. Obviously there are many, many exceptions and many, many other factors that are at play when it comes to attraction (brain neurochemistry for one) by and large white beauty being the norm in society has led to men and women of other races being excluded much more commonly. Anyway I don't have time to explain myself completely, but hopefully what I wrote makes some sense
(As a side note, things like eye surgery in Asians (to make their eyes bigger) and hair straightening/skin lightening in African Americans/Indians...color contacts for many races (blue and green eyes being considered "beautiful"), are all reflections of the Eurocentric standards of beauty the US and most of the world has. It is very common within minorities to be considered more attractive if you closer to white (light skinned black women, Asian women with large eyes, etc.).)"
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8254527#8254527
Things get even more complicated/****ed up when it comes to the gay/LGBTQ community, but I'll elaborate on that later.
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 4,948
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Quote:
Originally posted by WIG-SNATCHER
I want to start this off by saying that I always promised myself to not reveal much of my personal information on ATRL, but I believe that the members here have all been through many different things, and are from all around the world, and could really give a good discussion for this topic.
I am of Irish,Cherokee,French, and African descent, and was blessed with beautiful pecan brown skin, hazel green eyes and long reddish brown hair. Many people would just consider me "black" because of my skin tome.. I have no problem with that since I am mainly African and proud of who I am, BUT being a minority in the gay community really damages my view of myself sometimes.
I have read so many times on gay dating sites "white,latino, or asian only" or "not really attracted to black guys" and it really hurts tbh. I, myself am obsessed with other cultures and I love dating foreign guys and as a result of this obsession I know more than 10 languages other than my native one. Being black and gay in the any community is so hard when you have to stay strong about your constant judgment of your sexuality and prejudice against your race. I am not saying I have always been single. Many people hit on me and my last relationship was with the love of my life for two years.
I just feel like it is harder for me in dating or even hookups for that matter.
What are your experiences in interracial dating in the gay scene or even if you aren't gay or are a girl? is it hard for you? Do you date people of other cultures and ethnicity? Do your parents approve? ect.
(SORRY FOR THE LENGTH, I AM REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS )
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OP, you bring up a great discussion and some great points but the sentence I bolded sounds a little problematic and/or conceited. Just because you have "pecan skin" and "hazel green eyes" and "long reddish brown hair" does not make you necessarily beautiful or attractive; it upsets me because rarely do people ever say "beautiful black skin" or "beautiful dark brown eyes" or "beautiful black hair" because they tend to accentuate parts of their body (skin, eyes, hair, etc.) that are most "white"...and I don't mean this as a personal attack because I'm sure you are attractive and didn't mean anything by those words, but I just want to point out the fact that our inherent preferences for whiteness and white features is not just embedded in our preferences, but also in our language and behavior.
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Member Since: 1/3/2010
Posts: 21,098
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Quote:
I have read so many times on gay dating sites "white,latino, or asian only" or "not really attracted to black guys" and it really hurts
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Your pain runs deep and I share it.
I hate running across ignorant **** like that. You're not attracted to me or can't be friends with me because I'm black? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like plain as day racism.
I'm black and Native American, but I identify as black. If I shared two other things my mom has, I'd probably claim both.
Anyway, it pisses me off and makes me feel even lonelier when other gay guys automatically assume all black guys are the same because we happen to be black. It's one of the main reasons why I sometimes wish I was straight.
What pisses me off even more is when older white guys, old enough to be my dad or grandfather, ****ing try it. Bitch, just because you're white doesn't mean I'm blind to your age. My body's still intact and yours is falling apart. It's not gonna work. Never one to toot my own horn, but I don't look bad either, so why are old heads the only ones who hit me up?
I don't mean to sound rude, superficial, or however else I'm sounding, but I don't know where the **** they get off thinking that because they look like what most gays desire that they can pull me. Get out of my face with that ****.
With dating sites, I used to be the first to say something. Now, I just wait until something's said to me. I can't handle being rejected because of my skin color anymore. I've kind of given up on dating sites as it is. I'm more than my skin color, but no one seems to understand that.
*sigh*
Hiding behind so called preferences is bitch ****. Just own on your racism and call it a day.
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Member Since: 8/7/2010
Posts: 9,646
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I date a guy based on his individual personality, not race.
Whether he's a minority or not really doesn't matter to me. You can't change your race or skin color, so why focus on that? There's some trash Latinos, Blacks, Whites, Asians, Middle Easterns, as well as the goods.
Equal Opportunity is definitely the way to go. I learn more about different lifestyles with minorities than I do while I'm hanging around the same same same.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/22/2012
Posts: 3,968
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Quote:
Originally posted by longjohn9898
OP, you bring up a great discussion and some great points but the sentence I bolded sounds a little problematic and/or conceited. Just because you have "pecan skin" and "hazel green eyes" and "long reddish brown hair" does not make you necessarily beautiful or attractive; it upsets me because rarely do people ever say "beautiful black skin" or "beautiful dark brown eyes" or "beautiful black hair" because they tend to accentuate parts of their body (skin, eyes, hair, etc.) that are most "white"...and I don't mean this as a personal attack because I'm sure you are attractive and didn't mean anything by those words, but I just want to point out the fact that our inherent preferences for whiteness and white features is not just embedded in our preferences, but also in our language and behavior.
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I don't have a preference for white features. I only pointed out my physical attributes to make it further understood that even though I have saw the racial discrimination, I still love my features, and there is nothing about myself that I would like to change because I love my ancestry and cherish the things that were passed down to me
I understand what you mean by that though!
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
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Quote:
Originally posted by MyNameIsMiro
I am glad to hear this. A vast majority of my friends are straight men, so I have always wanted to hear the view of the Castro from a black guy, and I'm glad to hear that racism is the exception rather than the rule in your experience. And I'm sure you're right, a majority of people are cool, but assholes are usually louder than everyone else and get the most attention I suppose
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I can COMPLETELY relate with everything you've said in this thread, 100%, sis. I live in SF too and tbh, I've felt like you and the OP have almost every time I try to go out and talk to a guy I think is cute. Don't even let me get into trying to figure out who's actually "straight" or "gay" in SF . That's a whole other story entirely. I've witnessed the same thing you have in the Castro, and in the bay area in general.
It's nice to hear that other black guys have had better luck though, but it is very dependent on where you live. I'm actually mixed with white, japanese, and black, but because I'm so dark, people usually see me as black. I really can't at some of yall making excuses for people that state their "preferences" like this. There's a BIG difference between having a "preference" and completely writing off a whole race or type of person. It may not be blatant racism, but it's still there. You can't reject someone because of the color of their skin and tell me it's "just your preference." It doesn't work that way.
Also, to those saying that they just aren't attracted to a certain race, I urge you to assess exactly WHY you are not attracted to that race. You can still be prejudiced against a race without being fully aware of it. I have races that I tend to fall for more than others, but we have to own up to what it really is. The media plays a big role in what we find attractive. Just take a look at what the media tells us is the ideal type of man. Then look at how minorities are generally portrayed in the media. It has definitely gotten better over the years, but you can't honestly tell me there is not still some form of prejudice at work here. Even if it's not completely out in the open, it's all subliminal.
I am personally attracted to all races. I was raised to be accepting of all kinds of people, no matter what. At the end of the day, we're all human. A cute guy is a cute guy, no matter how dark or light they are, how far apart their eyes are, how big or small their nose is, etc. So, it really does hurt when you see or hear things like that. I'm proud of the color of my skin, but that doesn't mean it feels good to be written off so often simply because I don't fit the mold of what society says is "beautiful".
Thank you OP for making this thread. I was actually thinking of doing this too, since we had that Grindr thread, but you beat me to the punch. I really like hearing other peoples' experiences with this. It's very inspiring, especially all you bay area folk.
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Member Since: 6/4/2010
Posts: 38,919
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That's weird because I've never experienced that. All the gays I've ever encountered love black men. Lots of gays have a "black fetish".
And I don't know why you're on gay dating sites. They're terrible and full of thirsty psychos.
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Member Since: 8/7/2010
Posts: 9,646
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Also, are Native Americans endangered now?
There's not many full Native Americans around.
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Member Since: 3/16/2011
Posts: 6,580
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harmonic Dreamer
Also, are Native Americans endangered now?
There's not many full Native Americans around.
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Native americans from canada/usa yes but most mexicans are of mostly native american descend even if many will tell you they're ''mestizo'' (some even say they're white when they don't even look it) same with peruvians, ecuadorians and bolivians.
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Banned
Member Since: 2/22/2012
Posts: 3,968
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harmonic Dreamer
Also, are Native Americans endangered now?
There's not many full Native Americans around.
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There are still some full bloods, but times are very modern now so people are just having children with who they love instead of keeping it in the tride.
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Member Since: 1/3/2010
Posts: 21,098
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drais•▲iko
That's weird because I've never experienced that. All the gays I've ever encountered love black men. Lots of gays have a "black fetish".
And I don't know why you're on gay dating sites. They're terrible and full of thirsty psychos.
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My town's small and it's not exactly easy to run across gays here.
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Member Since: 11/20/2011
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally posted by longjohn9898
I'll repost something I wrote in the "Is it racist to only be attracted to certain races or skin colors?" thread a few months ago. I think it's somewhat relevant to this discussion:
"To be honest, yes to an extent. While no one should criticize someone else for their preferences, racial or not, the bottom line is that, yes, everyone has natural and unique preferences, but these preferences are a major byproduct of the society you were raised in. In the US and even globally, beauty in both sexes is very Eurocentric, favoring European features as "beautiful" or "hot" over features of other races. If images of "hot" white men and white women pervade advertisements and the film industry and virtually all media, then it would be natural, for the most part, for white male and female beauty becoming the norm and the standard by which all people in that society are get assessed for their attractiveness. Racial stereotypes also play a factor; African Americans are steretyped as being aggressive, which is an attractive feature in a males but an unattractive feature in females. There are stereotypes involving perceived masculinity/femininity; black men are stereotyped as being "big" while Asian women are stereotyped as being gentle and submissive. Attraction is sometimes exotification, and while no one can really change who they are attracted to, and attraction is seemingly innate, they largely reflect the values of beauty held by the society/country/culture they were raised in and continue to live in. Asian men and black women are hardly ever portrayed in the media as attractive and "hot", and on the flip side Asian women and black men are exotified sexually. These portrayals of race/gender/beauty huge impact on who or what kind of person a person is attracted to. Obviously there are many, many exceptions and many, many other factors that are at play when it comes to attraction (brain neurochemistry for one) by and large white beauty being the norm in society has led to men and women of other races being excluded much more commonly. Anyway I don't have time to explain myself completely, but hopefully what I wrote makes some sense
(As a side note, things like eye surgery in Asians (to make their eyes bigger) and hair straightening/skin lightening in African Americans/Indians...color contacts for many races (blue and green eyes being considered "beautiful"), are all reflections of the Eurocentric standards of beauty the US and most of the world has. It is very common within minorities to be considered more attractive if you closer to white (light skinned black women, Asian women with large eyes, etc.).)"
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8254527#8254527
Things get even more complicated/****ed up when it comes to the gay/LGBTQ community, but I'll elaborate on that later.
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Really well said . And isn't it interesting how people of color get to be othered as hyper-masculine or overly feminine based on their skin color, whereas whites are seen as "normal," race-less, and exempt from those types of extremes?
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Banned
Member Since: 2/22/2012
Posts: 3,968
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drais•▲iko
That's weird because I've never experienced that. All the gays I've ever encountered love black men. Lots of gays have a "black fetish".
And I don't know why you're on gay dating sites. They're terrible and full of thirsty psychos.
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HOOK A SISTA UP
And none of the guys I dated are from websites. This whole discussion is one of the reasons I gave up on that website ish. To untrustworthy.
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Member Since: 6/4/2010
Posts: 38,919
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Quote:
Originally posted by Midnight
My town's small and it's not exactly easy to run across gays here.
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Girl I live in small ass Alabama. It aint THAT hard.
Quote:
Originally posted by WIG-SNATCHER
HOOK A SISTA UP
And none of the guys I dated are from websites. This whole discussion is one of the reasons I gave up on that website ish. To untrustworthy.
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Lol it is really interesting too because I live in the south as well. I've never encountered any racism in the gay community or in general at all. Just get your gaydar level up and it'll be easy breexy beautiful covah gurl.
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Member Since: 4/17/2012
Posts: 330
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudinthesky
I can COMPLETELY relate with everything you've said in this thread, 100%, sis. I live in SF too and tbh, I've felt like you and the OP have almost every time I try to go out and talk to a guy I think is cute. Don't even let me get into trying to figure out who's actually "straight" or "gay" in SF . That's a whole other story entirely. I've witnessed the same thing you have in the Castro, and in the bay area in general.
It's nice to hear that other black guys have had better luck though, but it is very dependent on where you live. I'm actually mixed with white, japanese, and black, but because I'm so dark, and have black hair, people usually only see me as black. I really can't at some of yall making excuses for people that state their "preferences" like this. There's a BIG difference between having a "preference" and completely writing off a whole race or type of person. It may not be blatant racism, but it's still there. You can't reject someone because of the color of their skin and tell me it's "just your preference." It doesn't work that way.
Also, to those saying that they just aren't attracted to a certain race, I urge you to look deep inside and assess exactly WHY you are not attracted to that race. You can still be prejudiced against a race without being fully aware of it. The media plays a big role in what we find attractive. Just take a look at what the media tells us is the ideal type of man. Then look at how minorities are generally portrayed in the media. It has definitely gotten better over the years, but you can't honestly tell me there is not still some form of prejudice at work here. Even if it's not completely out in the open, it's all subliminal.
I am personally attracted to all races. I was raised to be accepting of all kinds of people, no matter what. At the end of the day, we're all human. A cute guy is a cute guy, no matter how dark or light they are, how far apart their eyes are, how big or small their nose is, etc. Which is why I agree with the OP. It really does hurt when you see or hear things like that. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm proud of who I am and the color of my skin, but that doesn't mean it feels good to be written off so often simply because I don't fit the mold of what society says is "beautiful".
Thank you OP for making this thread. I was actually thinking of making this kind of thread too, since we had that Grindr thread, but you beat me to the punch. I really like hearing other peoples' experiences with this. It's very inspiring, especially all you bay area folk.
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I'm glad to see someone saying this. I think you may have misinterpreted my situation a bit though, because you seem to think I'm black, but I'm not (I'm white) - so I cannot personally relate to the struggle that others feel as far as being personally affected by racism, but let it be said, that if some dude has "White guys only please" in his profile, that **** is an INSTANT deal breaker, regardless of how hot I may have previously thought he was, or whatever, he instantly becomes Castro trash to me.
There just seems to be a lot of hatred in general in the Castro, and it's really ****ing lame and pathetic. One of the things I love about the bay area is the cultural and racial diversity. Muni is like a ****ing rainbow of diversity, and I feel so lucky to live here - but the gay community here is often very trashy, and full of social structure crap that I thought died when I left high school. It's not just about race, people treat you differently based on how you DRESS, ****, even what bars you hang out at.
It's just all very silly because we live in arguably the most diverse city in the U.S. and gay people are so socially normal here that if someone does say something homophobic, any random person on Muni will jump down the throat of the person that said it - but our gay community is full of racist ********, drug addicts, and trend *****s. It's sad.
But of course, since so many gay men live here, there are a lot of cool gay men, just, well, not in the Castro very often lol.
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
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Quote:
Originally posted by longjohn9898
I'll repost something I wrote in the "Is it racist to only be attracted to certain races or skin colors?" thread a few months ago. I think it's somewhat relevant to this discussion:
"To be honest, yes to an extent. While no one should criticize someone else for their preferences, racial or not, the bottom line is that, yes, everyone has natural and unique preferences, but these preferences are a major byproduct of the society you were raised in. In the US and even globally, beauty in both sexes is very Eurocentric, favoring European features as "beautiful" or "hot" over features of other races. If images of "hot" white men and white women pervade advertisements and the film industry and virtually all media, then it would be natural, for the most part, for white male and female beauty becoming the norm and the standard by which all people in that society are get assessed for their attractiveness. Racial stereotypes also play a factor; African Americans are steretyped as being aggressive, which is an attractive feature in a males but an unattractive feature in females. There are stereotypes involving perceived masculinity/femininity; black men are stereotyped as being "big" while Asian women are stereotyped as being gentle and submissive. Attraction is sometimes exotification, and while no one can really change who they are attracted to, and attraction is seemingly innate, they largely reflect the values of beauty held by the society/country/culture they were raised in and continue to live in. Asian men and black women are hardly ever portrayed in the media as attractive and "hot", and on the flip side Asian women and black men are exotified sexually. These portrayals of race/gender/beauty huge impact on who or what kind of person a person is attracted to. Obviously there are many, many exceptions and many, many other factors that are at play when it comes to attraction (brain neurochemistry for one) by and large white beauty being the norm in society has led to men and women of other races being excluded much more commonly. Anyway I don't have time to explain myself completely, but hopefully what I wrote makes some sense
(As a side note, things like eye surgery in Asians (to make their eyes bigger) and hair straightening/skin lightening in African Americans/Indians...color contacts for many races (blue and green eyes being considered "beautiful"), are all reflections of the Eurocentric standards of beauty the US and most of the world has. It is very common within minorities to be considered more attractive if you closer to white (light skinned black women, Asian women with large eyes, etc.).)"
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8254527#8254527
Things get even more complicated/****ed up when it comes to the gay/LGBTQ community, but I'll elaborate on that later.
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Very well said. And I agree 100%. There's no need to fault someone for their preference. We all have them. But I do think it's important to know why we have these preferences and own up to it. This whole thing is a touchy subject that people (especially in the LGBT community) don't seem to like discussing...
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Member Since: 1/3/2010
Posts: 21,098
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drais•▲iko
Girl I live in small ass Alabama. It aint THAT hard.
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ALABAMA?! I thought you lived in Chicago for some reason.
Sis, it's definitely hard here...
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by WIG-SNATCHER
I really need opinions on this, I feel like it is a topic many people avoid, and I would like to know how people feel ^.^
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I feel you. Even though I'm white, lol.
My sticklers are the people who are conscientious about age... (as I like my men a little older than me; 19).
And then there are the others that are MASC only, types. Y'know? I mean... I know you like what you like, but I mean, I may not be super masculine, but I'm not a girl.
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Member Since: 11/20/2010
Posts: 7,042
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I'm gay and black and generally I get most play from people outside my race.
Out of all the men I've ****ed with (And I am not ashamed to say I've lost count) Most weren't even black LOL.
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Member Since: 12/3/2011
Posts: 11,947
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Quote:
Originally posted by Midnight
Your pain runs deep and I share it.
I hate running across ignorant **** like that. You're not attracted to me or can't be friends with me because I'm black? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like plain as day racism.
I'm black and Native American, but I identify as black. If I shared two other things my mom has, I'd probably claim both.
Anyway, it pisses me off and makes me feel even lonelier when other gay guys automatically assume all black guys are the same because we happen to be black. It's one of the main reasons why I sometimes wish I was straight.
What pisses me off even more is when older white guys, old enough to be my dad or grandfather, ****ing try it. Bitch, just because you're white doesn't mean I'm blind to your age. My body's still intact and yours is falling apart. It's not gonna work. Never one to toot my own horn, but I don't look bad either, so why are old heads the only ones who hit me up?
I don't mean to sound rude, superficial, or however else I'm sounding, but I don't know where the **** they get off thinking that because they look like what most gays desire that they can pull me. Get out of my face with that ****.
With dating sites, I used to be the first to say something. Now, I just wait until something's said to me. I can't handle being rejected because of my skin color anymore. I've kind of given up on dating sites as it is. I'm more than my skin color, but no one seems to understand that.
*sigh*
Hiding behind so called preferences is bitch ****. Just own on your racism and call it a day.
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Of course racial preference is inherently racist since it is based on race. I don't think anyone is denying that, but that doesn't make racial preference in dating partners inherently bad or evil.
Isn't it ageist to dislike someone because they're older like you mentioned? That doesn't make your preference for younger folks bad.
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