[Ramcoro]

I didn't know "masc4masc" was a demographic group.

[Homebrand]

Originally posted by Ramcoro

I didn't know "masc4masc" was a demographic group.

This

Anywho, i think there is problems from both parties (as mentioned already)

[YoYo]

Have no problem with fems unless they're overt.

[Staunch_Character]

Originally posted by Communion

This is.... a fallacy.

Masc4masc gays are seen as awful because they're oppressive, misogynistic and homophobic. Their blatant prejudices are why people get angry at them, while they get mad at feminine gay men for their natural voices or body mannerisms and innate gender expression. The comparison... is just non-sensical and impossible to take seriously.

Masc4masc gay men are oppressive in their beliefs and that's why they're criticized.

It sounds like you're conflating sexual attraction with the ability to be a decent human being. As if treating someone with respect and dignity were somehow contingent on the level of sexual desirability you feel for that person. Do you think it's possible to embrace someone's femininity and gender expression without being attracted to them?

Or do you actually believe the notion that any gay man who isn't sexually aroused by a feminine gay man is oppressive, misogynistic and homophobic? If that's truly how you feel then "non-sensical" and "impossible to take seriously" doesn't begin to scratch the surface...

[Cas]

[Communion]

Originally posted by Staunch_Character

It sounds like you're conflating sexual attraction with the ability to be a decent human being. As if treating someone with respect and dignity were somehow contingent on the level of sexual desirability you feel for that person. Do you think it's possible to embrace someone's femininity and gender expression without being attracted to them?

Or do you actually believe the notion that any gay man who isn't sexually aroused by a feminine gay man is oppressive, misogynistic and homophobic? If that's truly how you feel then "non-sensical" and "impossible to take seriously" doesn't begin to scratch the surface...

Except the OP doesn't focus on their sexual attraction. It focuses on their overall views of feminine gay men as PEOPLE and members of the LGBT community.

But thank you for reminding me to point out that, no matter how much ATRL says "it's just a preference, just cause I don't wanna **** them does that mean I treat them badly", we see RIGHT HERE that a LARGE PORTION of men who say they cannot be attracted to feminine men ALSO think that feminine men are inherently less valuable to the gay community or that being a feminine gay man is bad or wrong or makes you lessor.

Masc4mascs: I don't HATE fems, I just don't wanna **** them.
Masc4mascs: *a huge portion polled actually, apparently, DO hate feminine gay men*

It's almost like there's a correlation between being femmephobic trash outside of your sexual preferences and claiming your sexual preferences don't include feminine men. They should do similar polls for 'whites only' gays too so we can have an even bigger expose on the bigots of the gay community.

[britkneepopboi]

Not shocking. Especially in those locations.
Many Gays talk down about bottoms, feminine gays, gays who wear makeup, use slang etc.
It's internalized hate 100%, Doesn't matter how you act.
You still take dick in the butt, or **** a man.

[britkneepopboi]

Originally posted by Staunch_Character

I recognize that in the context of this article the above isn't meant as a blanket statement, but I find this line of thinking problematic when it's applied generally. The idea that a gay man who is attracted to masculinity must be afraid of all things feminine is bull****. The practice of policing attraction and ascribing negative connotations to an individual's sexual preferences is disgusting. As is playing armchair psychologist and "diagnosing" why a person prefers what they prefer.

So because someone's **** gets hard when they see this:


And shrivels up when they see this:


That means they're a misogynist with deep-seated, internalized homophobia? The logic...

this post is so idiotic.
Doesn't matter if one has pink hair, and the other has a "manly" beard
Both are seen as ******s by the world, who gives a **** how they look or act.
Besides there are ugly af masc gays, and cute ass fem gays. wyd...

[Vertigo Stick]

Originally posted by Communion

This is so head-ass and purposefully ignorant.

You know what the OP meant.

Whether you're serving high glamour realness with a contour and painted nails and flaming to the gods or a muscled out #straight-acting butch queen, you're still going to be looked at as a ****** by literally 95% of the world. If your response to homophobia is to step on feminine gays and scapegoat them by redirecting homophobia to them because femmephobia is real, yes, you have a lot of self-hatred to deal with.

Drag

[Clarksonator]

Originally posted by MonsterPaw

Lol. And many masculine gays and feminine lesbians too. Who cares? It's 2016. Gay people exist, some are conservative, others are liberal. Some identify with gay culture, others (like me) don't. We all "fought" for this. The only gay thing that I care about is gay marriage. I'm not "masc4masc" ( ) but I don't identify with the gay community and gay culture either.

Sure, log off ATRL then. This is the EPITOME of gay culture

[FOCK]

And what about the fems that only want "mascs"? Why is this never addressed as self hate?

This isn't always internalized homophobia. Most men are gay because they're attracted to the masculine. That's kind of the point... so if a guy turns you down for being too feminine, that isn't homophobic.

[The Unforgiving]

Why does ATRL still think that masc gays are internally homophobic? Not everyone is a Frankie Grande.

[Eeveelution]

Originally posted by -brian

what's funny is most of the people complaining about feminine guys in here would be labeled feminine by a majority of the world's men

n

you just that irl they're serving




Anyway, this is sad.

[Vertigo Stick]

Unlike some of you, I read the article and found this bit interesting:

While the findings make for uncomfortable reading, Fernando Lopez, LGBT History expert and Director at San Diego Pride believes they are not exclusive to the gay community: “This is actually common across socially stigmatised groups. You often see examples of attempted identity migration over to a group with the perceived higher status, though this is only really an option when the boundaries between the two groups are perceived to be permeable for those who can ‘pass’,” he explained.

“For example, we might see Latino people changing their names (something we call “whiting-out your name” here in California). I know of a lot of people who go by John, for example, whereas their real name is Juan, or Michael when their real name is Miguel. Mine would be Frank or something for example –but I like Fernando!

Very interesting read!

Some members give me 'why do we need gay pride! Like so embarrassing for gays. The straights will never accept us' teas. The real embarrassments

[Aurora]

And I'm sure an even higher percentage of fem gays irrationally hate masc4masc gays and think they're fake.

Not sticking up for this gross (and wrong) statistic (and statement) but there's two sides to every story.

[Communion]

Originally posted by FOCK

And what about the fems that only want "mascs"? Why is this never addressed as self hate?

It is self-hate, but it's a different side to the same coin. Masculine gay men have power to keep this status quo in order, while feminine gay men have to live with it.

Originally posted by Aurora

And I'm sure an even higher percentage of fem gays irrationally hate masc4masc gays and think they're fake.

Not sticking up for this gross (and wrong) statistic (and statement) but there's two sides to every story.

This is really not how privilege dynamics work. There's no "both sides". Sure, both sides can keep it in-line, but feminine gay men have to face a sector of oppression masculine gay men don't - femmephobia.

Being gender conforming or to align with the assigned traits to your respective gender doesn't make you open to oppressive systems as going against those traits does. It's like trying to argue something like colorism works "both ways", which only is derailing the conversation on colorism. The reality is that femmephobia is a huge issue amongst gay men and is the meeting of homophobia and misogyny. It's something gay men who are masculine do not experience, but can perpetuate and benefit from, while forcing feminine gay men to internalize and go along with.

[L.B GAGA]

Originally posted by Cas

I'd so date him. his so cute same with this guy, his my crush rlnship guy.



People are too mean to feminine guys and i agree most are usually people with internalized homophobia, viewing other gays through societies homophobes eyes.
I love sweet feminine guys who are sassy at times when trolling but kind-hearted in their souls(in short a good heart).

[Pristine]

ATRL calling masc gays 'homophobic' you think all gays should by nature be fem queens?

[MaryJaneHolland]

^ If they think that feminine gays give them a bad name then they're definitely homophobic

Originally posted by Communion

The reality is that femmephobia is a huge issue amongst gay men and is the meeting of homophobia and misogyny. It's something gay men who are masculine do not experience, but can perpetuate and benefit from, while forcing feminine gay men to internalize and go along with.

This was so eloquent and articulate that I want it framed and hung on my wall

[Khal]

Originally posted by Redstreak

Also interesting how they immediately equate feminine with bitchy and annoying.

Well I haven't taken a survey of every gay person, but it does seem like it's the "effeminate" guys that tend to be on the bitchy, catty end of the spectrum.

I've always wondered why, seeing as I don't think women are inherently bitchy/catty.