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Discussion: Your thoughts on the "Ground Zero Mosque"
Member Since: 7/14/2009
Posts: 22,692
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
That's really such a TERRIBLE thing to say. 9/11 will be a day that will live on in American history forever and we should NEVER forget all the people who died. The purpose of Ground Zero is to REMEMBER, not to FORGET.
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I never once ****ing said forget. I said let go as in to NOT make it suck a ****ing deal. Yes Ground Zero is for remembering that day, but to constantly bring it up gets annoying.
Forewarning don't you dare put word in my mouth again.
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedGaga
The people who want to build it there is trying to make a point. The point is that it's time for Americans to forgive innocent muslims and makeup. This mosque is a great way to get that point accross, it's not the muslims building the mosque there that are the enemies, the radicalists who started 9/11 are the enemies, but why are the muslims being reprimanded?
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The problem is that 2% of people in this country feel that way; therefore, it shouldn't be built. If 80% of Americans are saying NO, then it shouldn't be built. If 9/11 families are offended by it, then it shouldn't be built. Lets have consideration for the people who really had to suffer. At the time of the tragedy, there were tons of videos showing ordinary people in Arab countries celebrating American deaths by dancing, cheering, and burning our flag. Not that all Muslims feel this way, but none of you have yet answered my question...WHY CAN'T THEY BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE??
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Member Since: 11/2/2009
Posts: 19,838
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
I'm not going to stop. I'm just having some ****ing respect for the people who died and I will continue to have respect.
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You can have respect without being hateful to a whole religion of people.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
The problem is that 2% of people in this country feel that way; therefore, it shouldn't be built. If 80% of Americans are saying NO, then it shouldn't be built. If 9/11 families are offended by it, then it shouldn't be built. Lets have consideration for the people who really had to suffer. At the time of the tragedy, there were tons of videos showing ordinary people in Arab countries celebrating American deaths by dancing, cheering, and burning our flag. Not that all Muslims feel this way, but none of you have yet answered my question...WHY CAN'T THEY BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE??
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Just because a majority of people said no doesn't mean the majority is right. Think about slavery time, think about how many americans said that slaves shouldn't be free, and that slaves should be beneath them. That doesn't mean that American's were right back then. And I did answer your question about not being able to build it somewhere else, the muslims want to make a point
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Quote:
Originally posted by Music
You can have respect without being hateful to a whole religion of people.
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I'm not being hateful, I'm just sympathizing with victims. They are only asking the simple favor, that they move to a different location.
But if you want to say i'm being hateful, that is fine. I can also say they are being hateful towards 9/11 families.
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Member Since: 8/19/2006
Posts: 6,475
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
Read this please:
The proposed name? Cordova House:
Cordova is a city in South Spain. Muslims armies invaded Spain in 711
and conquered the country, massacring countless people. Then they
converted the biggest church in Cordova into a mosque and made
...it Islam's illustrious center of power in West Europe.
Building mosques over churches, synagogues and temples of the
conquered people was started by Muhammad, who converted the Ka'ba temple
of the Arabs in Mecca into an Islamic mosque.
Muslims have been doing the same ever since.
Numerous Hindu
temples, churches, synagogues, Parthenon, and Zoroastrian temples were
converted into mosques. The objective is twofold: To humiliate the
defeated people and to establish the supremacy of Islam.
The mosque over the temple of Solomon in Jerusalem is one example.
When Muslims conquered the Byzantine Empire they converted the biggest
church in Christian empire into a mosque. In India, over 2,000 mosques
stand on the site of destroyed Hindu temples.
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Okay, as a history major right now this kinda offends me. For once, it speaks as if converting temples from a previous religion to the new, conquering one was something done only by Muslims, when it's actually something MOST (if not all) religions did throughout their history! Even Christians did it to each other when during the Reformation Catholic churches and monasteries were closed and then sometimes re-opened as Protestant churches. It's not just a Muslim thing.
Oh, and by the way, Muhammad might've started turning buildings from other religions into mosques, but it's by far one of the least bad things you could do to a sacred space. The Romans and medieval Europeans were far worse, because they just desecrated and even disrespectfully destroyed them (need I bring up the Crusades or what happened to temples and sacred spaces in the Americas after its 'discovery'?).
Honestly, if you're gonna use "historical" evidence about the supposed message behind Cordo ba, then make sure it's objective and not just written in a way that is meant to generate polemic and controversy... Any type of historical analysis that's not objective or unbiased is no good to me...
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Member Since: 7/22/2010
Posts: 16,134
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
The problem is that 2% of people in this country feel that way; therefore, it shouldn't be built. If 80% of Americans are saying NO, then it shouldn't be built. If 9/11 families are offended by it, then it shouldn't be built. Lets have consideration for the people who really had to suffer. At the time of the tragedy, there were tons of videos showing ordinary people in Arab countries celebrating American deaths by dancing, cheering, and burning our flag. Not that all Muslims feel this way, but none of you have yet answered my question...WHY CAN'T THEY BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE??
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The question is not WHY CAN'T THEY BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, it's WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO.
You said that 70% of Americans are opposed to the mosque earlier, and now you're claiming 80%. One way or the other, you're misrepresenting public opinion on this.
I, for one, have to take a stand against the "most people feel this way so a minority should have to pay attention to their prejudices" argument. That's exactly what happened in California with Proposition 8. Minority rights, human rights, freedoms, etc should NEVER be predicated upon the will of the majority. Do you really think we would have freed the slaves if we'd left it up to each state to vote? Do you think women would have the right to vote if we'd let men vote on it? Did you know that >70% of the country was against interracial marriage when it was legalized?
Sometimes you need to put aside personal feelings and think about the bigger picture. This group found an available property and wants to build a community center, which will include a mosque, at that property. Case closed. If they have the money for it, if they stick to building codes and local ordinances, there is absolutely no reason it should not be there.
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedGaga
Just because a majority of people said no doesn't mean the majority is right. Think about slavery time, think about how many americans said that slaves shouldn't be free, and that slaves should be beneath them. That doesn't mean that American's were right back then. And I did answer your question about not being able to build it somewhere else, the muslims want to make a point
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Aren't we at a different place in society than 200 years ago? I think so...
if they are trying to make a point, it is the wrong point. sorry
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Member Since: 5/4/2010
Posts: 2,598
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Some of my closest friends are Muslims and I'm ****ing sick to death of them all being blamed for something a few lunatics have done. I guess these guys must be representative of all Christians then:
It's not even a mosque it's a prayer room stop attacking an entire religion for a few insane people and let people pray where they want
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Member Since: 5/15/2009
Posts: 8,461
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Why should they have to???
To have some ****ing respect. Case closed>
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by andresg770
Okay, as a history major right now this kinda offends me. For once, it speaks as if converting temples from a previous religion to the new, conquering one was something done only by Muslims, when it's actually something MOST (if not all) religions did throughout their history! Even Christians did it to each other when during the Reformation Catholic churches and monasteries were closed and then sometimes re-opened as Protestant churches. It's not just a Muslim thing.
Oh, and by the way, Muhammad might've started turning buildings from other religions into mosques, but it's by far one of the least bad things you could do to a sacred space. The Romans and medieval Europeans were far worse, because they just desecrated and even disrespectfully destroyed them (need I bring up the Crusades or what happened to temples and sacred spaces in the Americas after its 'discovery'?).
Honestly, if you're gonna use "historical" evidence about the supposed message behind Cordo ba, then make sure it's objective and not just written in a way that is meant to generate polemic and controversy... Any type of historical analysis that's not objective or unbiased is no good to me...
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OMG I totally agree with everything here
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
Aren't we at a different place in society than 200 years ago? I think so...
if they are trying to make a point, it is the wrong point. sorry
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Doesn't matter, you are making the point that if the majority of American's oppose an issue, the issue should side with the Americans. So it's completely irrelevant if I pull out information from 2 years ago or 200 years ago.
And the point they are trying to make is not wrong, it's completely right. How do you think we got to end Jim Crow Laws and get Women's Rights, we had to make a point through some kind of tangible medium. This mosque is the medium these muslims need to make a point about muslims not taking the blame for 9/11, that other people who just happened to be muslim should take the blame
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Member Since: 7/14/2010
Posts: 3,625
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I think it's retarded for Obama to approve. The irony is too much. But I think it's also stupid to protest against it, causing more tension. Just let it be. They aren't being terrorists, they're being muslims. The religious symbol is about peace. There's a difference between Fundamentalism and Religiousness. I agree that he shouldn't have approved and no one should have brought up the idea. But fighting against it is only more trouble.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 7/23/2007
Posts: 35,994
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Quote:
Originally posted by discostickk23
The problem is that 2% of people in this country feel that way; therefore, it shouldn't be built. If 80% of Americans are saying NO, then it shouldn't be built. If 9/11 families are offended by it, then it shouldn't be built. Lets have consideration for the people who really had to suffer. At the time of the tragedy, there were tons of videos showing ordinary people in Arab countries celebrating American deaths by dancing, cheering, and burning our flag. Not that all Muslims feel this way, but none of you have yet answered my question...WHY CAN'T THEY BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE??
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You are reading the off the RNC talking points memos, buddy. I say let the mosque/community center be built, and it is NOT on Ground Zero itself, but 2 blocks away. Imam Rauf is NOT a radical at all.
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Member Since: 7/22/2010
Posts: 16,134
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherGagaFan
I think it's retarded for Obama to approve. The irony is too much. But I think it's also stupid to protest against it, causing more tension. Just let it be. They aren't being terrorists, they're being muslims. The religious symbol is about peace. There's a difference between Fundamentalism and Religiousness. I agree that he shouldn't have approved and no one should have brought up the idea. But fighting against it is only more trouble.
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Uh, why? I don't see irony at all; I see our President standing up for freedom of religion that is enshrined in the Constitution. How could he NOT support the building of the mosque?
Sheesh, some people will find a way, even when they agree with him, to turn this into something bad about Obama.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by JGibson
You are reading the off the RNC talking points memos, buddy. I say let the mosque/community center be built, and it is NOT on Ground Zero itself, but 2 blocks away. Imam Rauf is NOT a radical at all.
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Some people just don't understand this
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Member Since: 7/14/2010
Posts: 3,625
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twai
Uh, why? I don't see irony at all; I see our President standing up for freedom of religion that is enshrined in the Constitution. How could he NOT support the building of the mosque?
Sheesh, some people will find a way, even when they agree with him, to turn this into something bad about Obama.
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Because it's obvious that people would protest, it's obvious that it would cause and bring up past hatred towards the religion. As if he didn't know people wouldn't like the idea. I think Muslims should be able to pray wherever. But people in this country are still ignorant about 9/11 and everyone knows that. Him approving it is him acting oblivious. But idiots who protest aren't right either. Why couldn't the Masjid be built anywhere else?
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherGagaFan
Because it's obvious that people would protest, it's obvious that it would cause and bring up past hatred towards the religion. As if he didn't know people wouldn't like the idea. I think Muslims should be able to pray wherever. But people in this country are still ignorant about 9/11 and everyone knows that. Him approving it is him acting oblivious. But idiots who protest aren't right either. Why couldn't the Masjid be built anywhere else?
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I don't know how many times I have to answer this question for people to understand
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ATRL Administrator
Member Since: 5/2/2000
Posts: 2,844
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Quote:
Originally posted by JGibson
You are reading the off the RNC talking points memos, buddy.
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JGib has arrived, Thank God. I bet we'll be talking about this on Sunday.
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Member Since: 7/14/2010
Posts: 3,625
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedGaga
I don't know how many times I have to answer this question for people to understand
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answer.
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