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Celeb News: The Martian white-washing Asian-American roles gets slammed
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inverted
I'm not sure you know what homogeneous means. There is almost zero ethnic diversity in South Korea and Japan. Despite that, there's actually a disproportionate amount of white people in their media.
Actually, the race isn't that important in Pan either. The point here is that it's another opportunity for Asian representation in the media that's killed. And again, quit it with the idealized hypothetical situation where the black and white actors just had better auditions. It's a made up scenario while whitewashing is an admitted reality. This is just like your naivety in the other thread where you claimed employers are unlikely to be biased because of names and you would look at qualifications only.
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Tiger Lily is pretty obviously meant to be Indian/Native American (or whatever you consider the correct term to be since it changes with each person)
I do know there's an obvious white-people bias (hello, I watch slasher movies where the survivors are almost guaranteed to be white, female, straight, cisgendered, virginal, etc. and I criticize movies if they completely play into that archetype too much. I think it's ridiculous how few black final girls we have too), my point is that you can't instantly jump to the conclusion of "whitewashing" just because two roles that were Asians in the books are played by white and black actors in the film when the two actors gave good performances. There actually are other viable explanations
What? I never said that employers are unlikely to be biased on names. It's a proven fact they are. I just said that I, personally, think qualifications are all that should matter
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Member Since: 8/24/2008
Posts: 35,091
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Cash
Kii that was Ridley Scott as well
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Wait omg I just realized that was him.
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At the time Scott told those threatening a boycott of the movie to "Get a life," and now he's doubling down on his stance, noting that the $145 million film never would have been made in the first place had he not cast Caucasian movie stars in the lead roles.
DEADLINE: Exodus was visually overwhelming, you created that ancient world and brought the plagues in all their vivid horror, and yet the fixation was on how you didn’t hire indigenous actors in the lead roles. In hindsight, is there something you might have done differently?
SCOTT: Nah. Some have said, isn’t Christ black? He could have been. It depends on what part of North Africa he comes from, but how do we know? The short sharp crude answer is, I couldn’t get a film like that mounted for that kind of budget—we were $145 million, not $260 million, so that wasn’t bad– but to make Moses black and his wife Ethiopian? They never would have made the movie.
Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/the-dartboard/...hxmkP2jhYLq.99
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Member Since: 11/27/2010
Posts: 9,806
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
The United States is also predominantly white as well, so.
As said, I'm opposed to actual white washing (Pan, Exodus), but this isn't white washing. The race is unimportant to these characters so until you can provide hard evidence of Asians who auditioned and gave superior auditions, I'm going to keep saying the role went to who gave the best performance
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That is an assumption. We don't know this to be true or not. You are assuming that the white actors performed better. All objective evidence before this movie came out suggests that white actors are preferred by the audience and it's stupid to believe that there was any other motivation other than money given this fact....as that's the only objective evidence we have.
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Member Since: 4/23/2011
Posts: 16,377
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
Tiger Lily is pretty obviously meant to be Indian/Native American (or whatever you consider the correct term to be since it changes with each person)
I do know there's an obvious white-people bias (hello, I watch slasher movies where the survivors are almost guaranteed to be white, female, straight, cisgendered, virginal, etc. and I criticize movies if they completely play into that archetype too much. I think it's ridiculous how few black final girls we have too), my point is that you can't instantly jump to the conclusion of "whitewashing" just because two roles that were Asians in the books are played by white and black actors in the film when the two actors gave good performances. There actually are other viable explanations
What? I never said that employers are unlikely to be biased on names. It's a proven fact they are. I just said that I, personally, think qualifications are all that should matter
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I'm aware Tiger Lily is supposed to be Native American (Indians are people from that Asian country named India which I'm sure you're aware), but it doesn't directly affect her story much. In fact, most characters don't. The complaint is really about lack of representation. I don't think your read my post on the last page, but I explained that statistics have shown that the vast majority of people in this country (and around the world) have no personal connections with people different from them so their primary source of information about others is from media portrayals. So are you really surprised that Asian-American groups are annoyed that a Korean and Indian character are erased when they almost had an opportunity for media representation?
People aren't jumping to the conclusion. The conclusion is there. They're just talking about the general trend, and yes, it exists. Google 21 and Sony explicitly admit why they chose white and black actors over East Asian one. People like to be PC and pretend it's just a matter of who's a better actor, but like Stonewall director admitted, it's about preference for whites. By the way, in those slasher films, the black characters usually die first because they're just minor characters and not necessary. It's not directly because they're not white. They're just cast in those roles because they're not really important.
Sorry about the employment thing, but the idea stands. You want the ideal situation to exist, but it just doesn't.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inverted
I'm aware Tiger Lily is supposed to be Native American (Indians are people from that Asian country named India which I'm sure you're aware), but it doesn't directly affect her story much. In fact, most characters don't. The complain is about really about lack of representation. I don't think your read my post on the last page, but I explained that statistics have shown that the vast majority of people in this country (and around the world) have no personal connections with people different from them and learn about others from media portrayals. So are you really surprised that Asian-American groups are annoyed that a Korean and Indian character are erased?
People aren't jumping to the conclusion. The conclusion is there. They're just talking about the general trend, and yes, it exists. Google 21 and Sony explicitly admit why they chose white and black actors over East Asian one. People like to be PC and pretend it's just a matter of who's a better actor, but like Stonewall director admitted, it's about preference for whites.
Sorry about the employment thing, but the idea stands. You want the ideal situation to exist, but it just doesn't.
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Okay.. plot's the wrong word, I guess saying it's important to her character? Like.... it doesn't make sense if Tiger Lily isn't Native American. On the other hand, Wendy went from a white woman to a black woman in that and I have no issues at all since Wendy makes sense as a character if she's white OR black. Does that get my idea across a little clearer or no?
I more meant with this specific movie (RE: jumping to conclusions). The trend definitely exists, but that doesn't prove that two (I believe) supporting characters being racelifted was done for the sake of the audience. They aren't going to be heavily featured in marketing materials, they aren't the main characters, and their race will have zero impact on who does or doesn't see the film. Except for SJWs protesting
To be fair, I don't think it's wrong to state what the ideal should be which is what I tend to do in a lot of these threads. I think sometimes I'm unclear with how I communicate it and it comes across like I believe that's the reality we live in.
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By the way, in those slasher films, the black characters usually die first because they're just minor characters and not necessary. It's not directly because they're not white. They're just cast in those roles because they're not really important.
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Lemme just clock you on this though because I LOVE horror and hate this stereotype. Yes, it's true non-whites die disproportionately much (though horror IS getting BETTER with that... slowly, but still. Progress is progress. I can name a fair amount of non-white survivors. In THE leading role is smaller, but still better than it used to be), but they actually very, very rarely die first and plenty of them are given "important" roles (or at least as important as a supporting slasher victim can be) And if you disagree with my assessment, you're welcome to provide a list of black characters who can die first and I'll post three who don't for every single one that does
That said, I disagree with the assessment that minorities aren't getting survivor roles in most slashers for race reasons. I seriously doubt it's a coincidence that most of these survivors are interchangeable
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Member Since: 4/23/2011
Posts: 16,377
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
Okay.. plot's the wrong word, I guess saying it's important to her character? Like.... it doesn't make sense if Tiger Lily isn't Native American. On the other hand, Wendy went from a white woman to a black woman in that and I have no issues at all since Wendy makes sense as a character if she's white OR black. Does that get my idea across a little clearer or no?
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I get what you're saying, but Tiger Lily doesn't have to be Native American using the logic you were using before. Your whole argument was that it doesn't majorly affect the characters in The Martian and it doesn't majorly affect Tiger Lily's character either. Sure, it wouldn't make sense, but Dr. Venkat Kapoor being played by a black man doesn't make sense either.
Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
I more meant with this specific movie (RE: jumping to conclusions). The trend definitely exists, but that doesn't prove that two (I believe) supporting characters being racelifted was done for the sake of the audience. They aren't going to be heavily featured in marketing materials, they aren't the main characters, and their race will have zero impact on who does or doesn't see the film. Except for SJWs protesting
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But that is the trend. The Stonewall is an explicit example because it's the main character, but the Asian characters in Hollywood scripts are usually supporting characters and they're still changed like in 21.
Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
To be fair, I don't think it's wrong to state what the ideal should be which is what I tend to do in a lot of these threads. I think sometimes I'm unclear with how I communicate it and it comes across like I believe that's the reality we live in.
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I think you're trying really hard to fight for idealistic reality when it just doesn't exist. Us "SJWs" you're complaining about are just calling a spade a spade and not being PC about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
Lemme just clock you on this though because I LOVE horror and hate this stereotype. Yes, it's true non-whites die disproportionately much (though horror IS getting BETTER with that... slowly, but still. Progress is progress. I can name a fair amount of non-white survivors. In THE leading role is smaller, but still better than it used to be), but they actually very, very rarely die first and plenty of them are given "important" roles (or at least as important as a supporting slasher victim can be) And if you disagree with my assessment, you're welcome to provide a list of black characters who can die first and I'll post three who don't for every single one that does
That said, I disagree with the assessment that minorities aren't getting survivor roles in most slashers for race reasons. I seriously doubt it's a coincidence that most of these survivors are interchangeable
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I agree that's plenty of improvement in the genre, but I said that it's not directly rooted in race because it's not like the writers of the movies specifically write scripts where the non-white person dies first. They usually write general characters and the minor characters are written to die first. It's just traditionally the minor characters will be cast with non-white actors.
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Member Since: 3/8/2012
Posts: 39,015
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Surprise? There is always a racial Asian block in Hollywood in the US
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inverted
I get what you're saying, but Tiger Lily doesn't have to be Native American using the logic you were using before. Your whole argument was that it doesn't majorly affect the characters in The Martian and it doesn't majorly affect Tiger Lily's character either. Sure, it wouldn't make sense, but Dr. Venkat Kapoor being played by a black man doesn't make sense either.
But that is the trend. The Stonewall is an explicit example because it's the main character, but the Asian characters in Hollywood scripts are usually supporting characters and they're still changed like in 21.
I think you're trying really hard to fight for idealistic reality when it just doesn't exist. Us "SJWs" you're complaining about are just calling a spade a spade and not being PC about it.
I agree that's plenty of improvement in the genre, but I said that it's not directly rooted in race because it's not like the writers of the movies specifically write scripts where the non-white person dies first. They usually write general characters and the minor characters are written to die first. It's just traditionally the minor characters will be cast with non-white actors.
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Fair point on the first one. I didn't realize that was his name
Wait, I'm confused. How could Hollywood hope to boost box office by changing the race of supporting characters people aren't seeing the film for?
I probably used SJW (if I used it) a little too liberally in this thread. I'll apologize and recant that.
Okay, that I get. And yeah, I agree with that. At least to an extent. There's still some exceptions tho (good frigging lorde the Friday the 13th remake That was PAINFUL with what a racist stereotype the token black character was. Literally could've just been his name )
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Member Since: 8/30/2010
Posts: 2,034
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The fact that the women's name is mindy 'park'. Lol
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 17,456
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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Loving the discussions happening in here. As an Asian American, its always a little disappointing to see how under-represented my people are in Hollywood films, and the roles that I see are often stereotypical caricatures of asian people. (ie Ken Jeong and whatever his name is from BBT) hoping this changes in the future.
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Originally posted by Girlicious
get over it lol
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you're trash lol
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 21,558
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Quote:
Originally posted by RomanNavy
Why is diversity only enforced in predominantly white countries? If u wanna watch asian characters go watch an asian film.
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Because white privilege is enforced everywhere else
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Member Since: 9/17/2012
Posts: 9,591
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Quote:
Originally posted by Planet Mars
Hollywood white-wahing? You Don't Say?
Hollywood has people thinking the Egyptians were White people
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I'm Egyptian, both of my parents are Egyptian, and we are white people. Not blue-eyed kind of a white people, my skin's a bit darker and I'm black haired. Kinda like people from South America, who still count as "Caucasian", right?
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 484
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I understand the frustration some people have, but I actually have to say that this movie had a pretty diverse cast for a huge Hollywood blockbuster. Many of the supporting actors were asian, black, latino and they even have norwegian Aksel Hennie to play a german astronaut (which easily could have gone to an american actor doing a terrible stereotypical german accent).
So I get the fight against white-washing, but I don't think this is the right movie to set an example with.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,380
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Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 28,853
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Quote:
Originally posted by boodytay
I'm Egyptian, both of my parents are Egyptian, and we are white people. Not blue-eyed kind of a white people, my skin's a bit darker and I'm black haired. Kinda like people from South America, who still count as "Caucasian", right?
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If you're Egyptian you aren't "white". WTF!? The thirst to be European is REAL.
Or are you being sarcastic?
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 25,037
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inverted
You're not even an American so I don't know why you're always running into this threads whining and overly concerned about Hollywood and American standards. If that's the advice you're giving to actual Americans, why don't you go to stick to watching Dutch movies?
By the way, there are actual quite a few white actors in Asian films from India, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc. so nice try.
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This is like saying: u're not from Syria so u're not allowed to have a comment on ISIS this site consist mostly of american social justice warriors and I get confronted with yalls fantasy world daily and I'm annoyed.
Personally idgaf whether the american films I watch have black/ white/ asian people starring. I'm just saying that europe and North America have a predominantly white population. Is it REALLY that hard to understand why there's a white wash or do yall get offended just to be offended?
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Member Since: 6/28/2006
Posts: 1,245
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i saw this movie yesterday and was bored most of the time
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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Quote:
Originally posted by RomanNavy
This is like saying: u're not from Syria so u're not allowed to have a comment on ISIS this site consist mostly of american social justice warriors and I get confronted with yalls fantasy world daily and I'm annoyed.
Personally idgaf whether the american films I watch have black/ white/ asian people starring. I'm just saying that europe and North America have a predominantly white population. Is it REALLY that hard to understand why there's a white wash or do yall get offended just to be offended?
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Im like 80% sure that you're a white European so idk why you thinking that representation doesn't matter is relevant to this at all. The problem is Hollywood whitewashing, not sure why you're bringing up Europe either. White people make up <2/3 of the American population, so its not even proportionate
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,174
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By casting a black guy for an Indian, didn't they black-wash too?
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