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Poll: Which gender has more freedom of expression?
View Poll Results: Who has more freedom of expression in western society?
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Men
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57 |
39.86% |
Women
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73 |
51.05% |
It's about equal
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13 |
9.09% |
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nano
Men aren't allowed to be sad. Meanwhile, men hate it when women are angry and will frequently call them names because of it or tell them to "shut up". Women who like rock music will get a lot of hate for it, since some men will think they're "posers" or "fakes". Women are also under a lot of pressure to not be promiscuous, and will often be shunned by family members or classmates if they are.
Also, did you hear of a recent thing called "Gamergate"? If you didn't, I suggest you read up on it.
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So... they're pretty equally oppressed by gender roles? You pretty much flipped what I said (men HAVE to be promiscuous/sexually active, women shouldn't be. Men can't be sad, women can't be angry) I actually wasn't aware of the rock music thing, but I buy it.
To be fair, 99% of public opinion has serious issues with Gamergate.
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Member Since: 8/30/2011
Posts: 3,073
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Of course men. Lmao, stop watching your own ass and relying on your privileges and look for a change, you cis self-centered rich gays. It's like, are you blind or something? It's obvious men are more free than women, while women are subject to a lot of chains and patriarchy and you know, that stuff. Stop acting like you've been brainwashed. Expression freedom doesn't only rely on stuff like "men can't be sad" it's a lot more complicated than that and it's all based on men's control over women and how they impose fem-gender roles in order to keep their -power- place safe
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
you aren't allowed to ignore the majority of women on the planet and focus the discussion on your cushy western nations where women supposedly have equal rights (they don't really).
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No one is ignoring them, but you all allowed to focus on the gender issues in a specific part of the world. That's not pretending the rest aren't occurring, it's narrowing your focus so you can actually have a discussion. Gender issues in the west are obviously still very relevant, considering a bunch of people live there
Also, the arguments you're making are the kind of things you see on an anti-feminist news channel to show how "irrational" feminists are and how unreasonable and illogical their arguments are. You take what people are saying out of context, you provide absolutely no examples or logic to back up your comments, and you completely twist words and meanings (focusing on one country = trying to ignore every single other one)
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Member Since: 6/28/2010
Posts: 7,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
you aren't allowed to ignore the majority of women on the planet and focus the discussion on your cushy western nations where women supposedly have equal rights (they don't really).
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No-one is ignoring those women... I and the vast majority of people in the west detest all those countries where women are denied equal rights.
My point is that in the west today we have an opportunity to move towards a truly objective debate around the nature of gender and gender roles in our society, and it seems to me that so many feminists don't want to have that debate.
We live in a world where our gender roles so exaggerate any possible innate differences between the sexes, and unless that culture changes there will always be sexism, there will always be patriarchy, and there will always be inequality.
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Member Since: 6/29/2012
Posts: 13,597
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In the western world, women have more freedom but in the world overall, men do.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
The government has no power over gender expressionism in the U.S. due to thinks like the first amendment, and both genders play a part in determining what is considered acceptable/unacceptable gender behavior. YOur logic is ridiculous and inaccurate.
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I don't see why you are bringing the government into discussion when it is irrelevant to the topic. Whether or not men and women have equal rights, you can't deny that women still face systematic oppression from men who dominate the social hierarchy. Doing so is the same as claiming racism does not exist, because blacks and whites are treated equally under the law.
I love your optimistic thinking, but sadly we don't live in this idealistic world where everyone has an equal say in things!
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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Quote:
Originally posted by brndksk
No-one is denying that some women are in terrible situations, but the typical feminist response to this nowadays is to focus entirely on the woman... this won't solve the problem. We need to examine our gender and gender roles and determine why so many men are like this.
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You are severely misinformed. Feminists are against gender period.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,473
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Western societies women. Everywhere else men.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Honeymoon
I don't see why you are bringing the government into discussion when it is irrelevant to the topic. Whether or not men and women have equal rights, you can't deny that women still face systematic oppression from men who dominate the social hierarchy. Doing so is the same as claiming racism does not exist, because blacks and whites are treated equally under the law.
I love your optimistic thinking, but sadly we don't live in this idealistic world where everyone has an equal say in things!
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Both sides face systematic oppression at this point. There's a reason mothers in divorce cases have a higher rate of retaining custody of kids (and often get more time with them) That's not to say women don't suffer from it either, but. And both genders have power, so both DO play a role in gender roles. Women perpetuate stereotypes as much as men do, and I've actually seen more women participate in ****-shaming than men, I think, at this point
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Banned
Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally posted by brndksk
Like it or not, we are living in a society where women and men are leading very different lifestyles, and making very different decisions about the way in which they pursue their careers and their happiness. Whether this is because of gender roles or biology or both, that's up for discussion and it's an important debate to have.
Your argument also seems to misunderstand the fact that in the west we live in a representative democracy where each elected representative serves all the people... and in the majority of western democracies the majority of voters are actually women. But anyhow this isn't related to the OP...
Personally I believe it ultimately all comes down to gender roles.
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Can you please rephrase? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. I do agree, however, that it all boils down to gender roles; that is the basis of my argument.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by that G.U.Y.
You are severely misinformed. Feminists are against gender period.
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Not all are. Some are, but some are for gender equality and some radical ones are for female superiority.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 13,761
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Quote:
Originally posted by MiMiLamb
But the OP isn't talking about oppression throughout history?
Can y'all just give examples of how women have less freedom of expression instead of warping the OP's stance?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
We're not talking about history, we're talking about now. And being forced to zip it on feelings is incredibly dangerous, emotionally unhealthy, and has led to a lot of suicide attempts in the past and (unfortunately) will almost definitely lead to more in the future. Male gender expression is limited in more than just that now though
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and i said 'which still endure today'. the fact that y'all reduce 'freedom of expression' to talking about how we're feeling today and ignore the fact that there are many societies which exist TODAY where women can't even open their mouths.
even in western society, the fact that it doesn't even speak to y'all that most politicians are old white men. even still, focusing on what you believe on western equality is never going to help world equality, is it?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
Not all are. Some are, but some are for gender equality and some radical ones are for female superiority.
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Source? (And not twitter/facebook/youtube posts)
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Member Since: 6/28/2010
Posts: 7,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by that G.U.Y.
You are severely misinformed. Feminists are against gender period.
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You are severely misinformed if you are under the impression that there is only one type of feminism ...
Of course certain feminists are against gender or question gender and want to have the debate I am referring to... that's why in this thread I have consistently criticised some feminists.
There is a prevailing kind of feminism, however, which wants to focus entirely on woman while blaming everything on patriarchy... not only is this counter-productive but it is also serves to deny us all the serious and existential debate about gender which we should be having.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by that G.U.Y.
Source? (And no not twitter/facenook/youtube posts)
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Literally the definition of feminism, for one?
Quote:
1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
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I'm not actually sure advocating for the removal of genders can even be considered feminism, since it's so tied up IN gender.
Quote:
Originally posted by bluth
and i said 'which still endure today'. the fact that y'all reduce 'freedom of expression' to talking about how we're feeling today and ignore the fact that there are many societies which exist TODAY where women can't even open their mouths.
even in western society, the fact that it doesn't even speak to y'all that most politicians are old white men. even still, focusing on what you believe on western equality is never going to help world equality, is it?
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We're talking Western society in this thread
EDIT: You do realize that WOMEN are voting these "old white men" in yes? Nevermind the fact that your comment there is incredibly sexist and racist. Throwing non-white/female politicians into a major position just so you can say "WE HAVE A NON-WHITE/FEMALE POLITICIAN HERE!" is the definition of tokenism, which is incredibly harmful to all races/genders. It demeans the groups into being nothing more than a way to fill a quota rather than people, and it takes away opportunities from people who aren't in said groups purely for being the wrong race/gender, even if they're more qualified.
Not to say I like our U.S. politicians, but
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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Quote:
Originally posted by brndksk
You are severely misinformed if you are under the impression that there is only one type of feminism ...
Of course certain feminists are against gender or question gender and want to have the debate I am referring too... that's why in this thread I have consistently criticised some feminists.
There is a prevailing kind of feminism which wants to focus entirely on woman while blaming everything on patriarchy... not only is this counter-productive but it is also serves to deny us all the serious and existential debate about gender which we should be having.
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Thats not the prevailing feminist thought. That is the facet you disagree with, but definitely is not the majority.
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Banned
Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
Both sides face systematic oppression at this point. There's a reason mothers in divorce cases have a higher rate of retaining custody of kids (and often get more time with them) That's not to say women don't suffer from it either, but.
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I understand that you are trying to bring the issue into context, but you are forgetting the countless countries and systems where women are the absolute pits of society. Men and women around the world do not face equal and/or comparable systematic oppression and claiming so would be absurd.
Since the emancipation of women in the early 20th century, gender roles in the Western world have indeed started to level out. But this isn't the case for the rest of the world, which is significantly lagging behind in women rights and opportunities. Women are still told to cover themselves up, to limit their creative expression. Women are forced into arranged marriages where they have no opportunity to express their love and desires on their own accord. They face getting beaten by their husbands if they don't comply with his orders.
Equating freedom of expression, which is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas, to men feeling uncomfortable with crying in public, is laughable.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 58,053
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Women
They can make men pay their rent
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Banned
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,389
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Quote:
Originally posted by MiMiLamb
Men's fashion is very limited and it is not socially acceptable for them to take from women's fashion (wearing dresses etc.).
Women have much more freedom of expression when it comes to clothing.
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This. In term of fashion, women can wear anything
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 13,761
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
EDIT: You do realize that WOMEN are voting these "old white men" in yes? Nevermind the fact that your comment there is incredibly sexist and racist.
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not my comment about 'old white men' being sexist and racist. i'm screaming
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