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News: Muslim boat migrants threw christians off the boat
Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
I'm not debating about who are the violent ones therefore the opposing party have more right to be violent. I said in one of my previous posts - no matter what happened in history - you cannot deny that it propelled Islam to be what it is today. You cannot deny that a book like the Quran came out of it. As a result, some followers are using it to conquer, kill, and increase the Muslim population.
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When it comes to "What Islam is today" you have no choice but to bring in the recent events that caused it.
The extremism is a byproduct of imperialism. That's where it came from.
When the Americans, Russians, British and to an extent Saudis started messing with the politics in the Middle East they were directly putting in people whom they thought they could puppet and people who would align with their interests.
Little did they know they were funding these extremists. It would be like funding the Neo-Nazies. Had the West not got their claws in the Middle East groups like ISIS wouldn't exist or other similar terrorist group. And that's what they are terrorist who are power hungry not true believers. And when you have people like this for generations people in those areas can be brainwashed to believe in that stuff.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 10,844
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
Because you said Muhammad was tortured as if justifying for his later actions. I was giving a counter example.
I hope you can get over Islam and find true peace, will and freedom.
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i'm not justifying him, i'm telling Islam is not started with war  and just because i defend him on this, doesn't mean i belive in Islam  xoxo
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Member Since: 8/12/2012
Posts: 13,665
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
Actually no it was not. Like read the history of Muhammad he actually conquered many territories through diplomacy and nonviolence.
In fact Islam sprang up because many of those conquered places were war torn between the Persians and Byzantine. They saw how Muhammed and his followers were far more benevolent than those other empires and openly embraced them.
Also many of the Muslims empires saved Jews and Christians who were being persucuted by Europeans.
Another fun fact. During the crusades when the French came into Jerusalem they slaughtered every jew and Muslim. So much so that blood ran through the streets. When the Muslims reclaimed the city decades later not a single civilian was harmed. Makes you wonder who is truly the violent ones when you read up on history.
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Salah ad-Din a Kurd
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
I agree with what you said, that's part of the reasons I'm against religion.
I'd rather the Pope live in fortune, than a Muslim person kill an innocent and say 'by the name of Allah and Muhammad'. That's what I've been trying to say all along. Those Muslim terrorists are using the Quran as their laissez-faire. They think they are right because they believe it is the word of God. Without the Quran (and any religion), there would have been less war.
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That's not true.
The most violent wars had nothing to do with religion.
War War 2 was spearheaded by two atheist countries Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.
A world with no religion wouldn't be that much different. There would still be racism, sexism, homophobia and other things.
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Member Since: 8/13/2012
Posts: 32,832
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
That's not true.
The most violent wars had nothing to do with religion.
War War 2 was spearheaded by two atheist countries Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.
A world with no religion wouldn't be that much different. There would still be racism, sexism, homophobia and other things.
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sis you're really spreading the gospel in this thread i'm in awe 
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by PromKing
It's ridiculous for you to think that I am responsible for another persons actions but I would expect that sort of ignorance from you.
I will not take responsibility of something that I am against, I will not take responsibility for something that I do not believe in and I will not take responsibility for something you guys are selectively picking out of a big book that only has one edition and not 50.
Don't let that stop you from taking responsibility for everything that was done by
Americans
Christians
Men
Because you fall under all three "topics"
Enjoy defending the KKK.
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Umm... YES.
Americans collectively bear the burden of what happened in Afghanistan and pressured the president to withdraw the troops.
White people also collectively bear the burden of racism/slavery (which happened decades ago)
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Muslims like you, however, bury their head in the sand as their people continue to massacre in the name of Allah. (200 Christian students were killed @ a university in Kenya, just last week)
The world will continue to silently resent you and you will remain clueless as to why.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
That's not true.
The most violent wars had nothing to do with religion.
War War 2 was spearheaded by two atheist countries Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.
A world with no religion wouldn't be that much different. There would still be racism, sexism, homophobia and other things.
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I'm using the word 'war' as an umbrella for attacks/bombings/kidnappings/etc and Islam will always be associated with war because of extremists and the Quran itself. Just look at recent years' statistics.
I like to think that a fraction of issues like sexism and homophobia exist because of religion. It's apparent in holy scriptures, but that's another subject. But yes, it would still exist without religion I believe. Religion is just the bigger evil. It instills fear and creates more chaos.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
When it comes to "What Islam is today" you have no choice but to bring in the recent events that caused it.
The extremism is a byproduct of imperialism. That's where it came from.
When the Americans, Russians, British and to an extent Saudis started messing with the politics in the Middle East they were directly putting in people whom they thought they could puppet and people who would align with their interests.
Little did they know they were funding these extremists. It would be like funding the Neo-Nazies. Had the West not got their claws in the Middle East groups like ISIS wouldn't exist or other similar terrorist group. And that's what they are terrorist who are power hungry not true believers. And when you have people like this for generations people in those areas can be brainwashed to believe in that stuff.
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Miss me with this excuse. Hating other govts for political reasons doesn't justify blowing up schools. That has nothing to do with the US.
Also, what is a "true believer"? Why is their literal interpretation "wrong" but the loose interpretation of the muslim majority, based around modern values, is right?
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
I'm using the word 'war' as an umbrella for attacks/bombings/kidnappings/etc and Islam will always be associated with war because of extremists and the Quran itself. Just look at recent years' statistics.
I like to think that a fraction of issues like sexism and homophobia exist because of religion. It's apparent in holy scriptures, but that's another subject. But yes, it would still exist without religion I believe. Religion is just the bigger evil. It instills fear and creates more chaos.
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So are you going to ignore Eastern religions?
Because please do explain the pacifism of Eastern religions. And on top of that let's even talk about religion of the Native Americans.
Because you're using an umbrella term for religion and I'm surprised. I would expect a person who hates religions so much would have a much deeper understanding of it.
Like gosh why is Janism so peaceful.
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Miss me with this excuse. Hating other govts for political reasons doesn't justify blowing up schools. That has nothing to do with the US.
Also, what is a "true believer"? Why is their literal interpretation "wrong" but the loose interpretation of the muslim majority, based around modern values, is right?
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Because often the literal translations are not the true thing. Many of these things were written and rewritten so many times.
Do you know how many times the Torah was re-written? The original book was a lot more logical than the newer versions. Contradictions are usually the product of this. The life of Muhammed that was written in the Quran was often times written years after his death. So much so that many of those stories were used to legitimize a political agenda at which ever time.
Like many of those things were not even meant to be taken literally. And if Muslims actually went to the bases of Islam like during the time of Muhammed Islam then things would be different today. But you can't do this without looking at politics you just can't.
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Member Since: 5/10/2011
Posts: 4,200
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This sounds like propoganda to me.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
So are you going to ignore Eastern religions?
Because please do explain the pacifism of Eastern religions. And on top of that let's even talk about religion of the Native Americans.
Because you're using an umbrella term for religion and I'm surprised. I would expect a person who hates religions so much would have a much deeper understanding of it.
Like gosh why is Janism so peaceful.
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Of course I'm not ignoring other religions and their absurdities. This is a thread about Muslim terrorists, therefore I'm talking about them. I even said 'Christian terrorists' at some point in this thread, so this proves I'm not being one-sided or anything.
But yes, I admit that Islam concerns me the most, because of what Muhammad preached. The verses in the Quran worries me. I'm not only talking about killing non-believers but other verses considered barbaric in our modern age. To see these still being acted upon is beyond me. I'm really sad about the people who are born in some Islamic countries because they will never know real peace or have the freedom that some of us have. Islam is a fast growing religion, so that's also why I'm catering about it the most. I'm not speaking as an anti-Islam person, but as a pro-peace one.
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Member Since: 8/12/2012
Posts: 13,665
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
Because often the literal translations are not the true thing. Many of these things were written and rewritten so many times.
Do you know how many times the Torah was re-written? The original book was a lot more logical than the newer versions. Contradictions are usually the product of this. The life of Muhammed that was written in the Quran was often times written years after his death. So much so that many of those stories were used to legitimize a political agenda at which ever time.
Like many of those things were not even meant to be taken literally. And if Muslims actually went to the bases of Islam like during the time of Muhammed Islam then things would be different today. But you can't do this without looking at politics you just can't.
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But the thing is, the Quran isn't up for interpretation, because it's declared as the word of God by himself via Gibril.
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Member Since: 5/21/2012
Posts: 13,571
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Umm... YES.
Americans collectively bear the burden of what happened in Afghanistan and pressured the president to withdraw the troops.
White people also collectively bear the burden of racism/slavery (which happened decades ago)
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Muslims like you, however, bury their head in the sand as their people continue to massacre in the name of Allah. (200 Christian students were killed @ a university in Kenya, just last week)
The world will continue to silently resent you and you will remain clueless as to why.
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Where are all the Christians when the Muslims are being killed ????????? The ones that are being killed in America??????? Where are the Christians that are taking the blame for hate crimes like that?????
The ignorant people in this world WILL continue to resent me for being a Muslim despite the fact that those US funded groups like ISIS( PS Hilary admitted to it) to damage the world. As Embustera said it's propaganda and your lack of knowledge will keep you blaming innocent people for this when in reality it's ... propaganda, research that and then come on ATRl.
Quote:
Originally posted by Embustera
This sounds like propoganda to me.
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!!
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by PromKing
Where are all the Christians when the Muslims are being killed ????????? The ones that are being killed in America??????? Where are the Christians that are taking the blame for hate crimes like that?????
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Terrorists stem from all religions. But the thing is, we see the majority of Muslim terrorists using the Quran as an excuse for their acts. What makes it even more believable is that the Quran indeed have those verses. This is why Islam is so badly pointed at.
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Member Since: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,122
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Quote:
Originally posted by PromKing
Where are all the Christians when the Muslims are being killed ????????? The ones that are being killed in America??????? Where are the Christians that are taking the blame for hate crimes like that?????
The ignorant people in this world WILL continue to resent me for being a Muslim despite the fact that those US funded groups like ISIS( PS Hilary admitted to it) to damage the world. As Embustera said it's propaganda and your lack of knowledge will keep you blaming innocent people for this when in reality it's ... propaganda, research that and then come on ATRl.
!!
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Did the Americans you speak of kill your Muslims 'in the name of God'? No.
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Member Since: 5/21/2012
Posts: 13,571
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeyoncéFlicks
Did the Americans you speak of kill your Muslims 'in the name of God'? No.
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Read all my comments before responding.
If I have to take blame for religion, all Americans should take blame for the attacks done by their country.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by PromKing
Read all my comments before responding.
If I have to take blame for religion, all Americans should take blame for the attacks done by their country.
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A Muslim's case is different because just by being Muslim, he is supporting a religion that tells its followers to shed blood.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kavish
But doesn't Islam tell Muslims to slaughter non-believers?
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No.
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Member Since: 9/6/2012
Posts: 46,465
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
No.
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Yes. There is no spiritual interpretation behind those verses.
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