[MusicTalker]

Men making fun of feminism is just a really bad look. They should take it seriously, not be threatened by it and thus make a parody out of it.

All that does is take us back, not forward.

[Sazare]

Originally posted by Kamil24

Well some countries have a paternity leave as well

Yeah, I know, but it's rarely recognized by most employers and a bit stigmatized here in the US, which is why I mentioned it. It's one of the very few luxuries that's mostly only afforded to women, though (at least here, anyway).

[Auraeolux]

Anyway I've been watching this movement from when it started to gain traction. It is not a joke to them. A lot of these meninists have been abusing and leaving death threats as well as disrespecting women in less extreme ways.

Also, have you ever seen these meninists stand up for Trans Men? For Gay men?

[Homogenic]

If straight people would run twitters & wear t-shirts with some **** like ''End heterophobia'' I wonder if you would consider that a joke as well and laugh.

This meninist ******** is problematic, it's not a joke because that is exactly the way most straight guys think about women / girls and the point of ''making fun of feminism bc it's annoying'' just proves how important and needed feminism is.

[MusicTalker]

Originally posted by Homogenic

If straight people would run twitters & wear t-shirts with some **** like ''End heterophobia'' I wonder if you would consider that a joke as well and laugh.

This meninist ******** is problematic, it's not a joke because that is exactly the way most straight guys think about women / girls and the point of ''making fun of feminism bc it's annoying'' just proves how important and needed feminism is.

!!!

[Phoenetic]

Originally posted by Homogenic

Umm, maybe it's because literally 1 out of 3 women experience violence and harassment nowadays?

Educate yourself please

Umm, I never said they didn't?
I don't need to educate myself as I know of these problems. I know women encounter way more violence and harassment, hence why I said that women have more trouble when it comes to gender equality than men. I was very reasonable in my post. You may want to read it again.

Originally posted by Sazare

This is such a straw man and also completely false.

The fact of the matter is that, being vastly male-oriented, male-produced, and male-dominated industries, film and video games are incredibly misogynistic and chauvinistic.

I never said they weren't. In many cases the criticism is completely justified. You are reading more into what I said than what I actually said. I only said that some feminists complain about everything. I know this is a small minority, but there are some overly extreme feminists out there.

Originally posted by Sazare

This isn't a thing. Depending on the situation, a film might get called out for glorifying or normalizing violence against women or using violence against women for sheer shock value, but that's about it.

Ok, I admit it was a poor example. But let's take GTA 5 that was removed from some stores in Australia because a bunch of people said it was mysogynistic. The argument was that you can beat up and kill women, while in fact you can do that exact same thing, in the exact same way, to men as well. You can do that to any random stranger you pass by in the game. It's not specific to women. Apparently these people believe you should only be allowed to beat and kill men in this videogame, and women should somehow be invulnerable to it.

Originally posted by Sazare

What? What rights do women have that men don't? Maternity leave?

I meant that some feminists still want men to be what society dictates is "manly" (pay at the restaurant, "man up", etc). Men get generalized and labeled often as well.
Again, I can't stress this enough: I know women have to deal with these problems much more than men. I am simply saying that it's not all black or white. So please don't "" me.

Originally posted by Rama

1. If a woman is beaten up by another woman (as it should always be) no one claims 'violence against women', and I hardly remember a movie where a man beat a girl getting MASSIVE backlash from media/society

2. 'many feminists expect women to have the same rights as men, but then don't want men to have the same rights as women do' This generalization

1. As I said above, I agree it's a bad example.

2. It is in no way a generalization. I explicitly said "many feminists" to show that I know that not all feminists are like that. In fact, I know most aren't like that. Just a surprisingly big amount of them are. Hence why I said "many". Hence why it is not a generalization.


Y'all are really reading too much into what I said and I have to defend myself for that somehow. I explicitly stated twice that I know women have these issues more than men. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

[Retro]

I love the word #meninist. It cleverly combines the painful brain inflammation of "meningitis" with the doomed zeal of "Leninist".

[2stupid4you]

saw this on tumblr, lemme just leave it here

[TikiMiss]

Yasss #Meninist #Peoplewhobelievewomenshouldpaythebill50%ofthetime #Peoplewhobelieveyoushouldn'thavetosavewomenandchi ldrenfirst

[TikiMiss]

Originally posted by MusicTalker

Men making fun of feminism is just a really bad look. They should take it seriously, not be threatened by it and thus make a parody out of it.

All that does is take us back, not forward.

well, things were pretty good for us men back then

[DripDrip]

This is such a joke

The "well men face situations and double standards too" argument always gets me.

[henryevil]

Originally posted by JadGhamloush96

It's kind of true. If Magic Mike was about girls then there would've been a massive uprising from feminists about the movie promoting certain bodies of women, but with men we are expected to have muscles, six packs and whatnot. Objectifying anyone is wrong whether it is men or women.

[henryevil]

Whenever gender issues are brought up on ATRL it always exposes the users who need to stay in school

[Sazare]

Originally posted by Phoenetic

I never said they weren't. In many cases the criticism is completely justified. You are reading more into what I said than what I actually said. I only said that some feminists complain about everything. I know this is a small minority, but there are some overly extreme feminists out there.

Originally posted by Phoenetic

I meant that some feminists still want men to be what society dictates is "manly" (pay at the restaurant, "man up", etc). Men get generalized and labeled often as well.
Again, I can't stress this enough: I know women have to deal with these problems much more than men. I am simply saying that it's not all black or white. So please don't "" me.

Except this "small minority" in no way represents actual feminism and this small minority is so small it's hardly worth mentioning anyway. In fact, I'm not sure any women who actually do any of these things would actually identify as feminists.

And moreover, while it's true that there are a select few social norms that benefit women over men, and you acknowledge this yourself, they're so far and few between that that's also negligible in comparison to what's afforded to men, to the point where it seems absurd here to even bring them up. It seems about on par with bringing up the fact that gays get their own bars and clubs while straights don't in a discussion about gay rights or bemoaning minority-only scholarships as a white person.

Originally posted by Phoenetic

Ok, I admit it was a poor example. But let's take GTA 5 that was removed from some stores in Australia because a bunch of people said it was mysogynistic. The argument was that you can beat up and kill women, while in fact you can do that exact same thing, in the exact same way, to men as well. You can do that to any random stranger you pass by in the game. It's not specific to women. Apparently these people believe you should only be allowed to beat and kill men in this videogame, and women should somehow be invulnerable to it.

The accusations of misogyny in the GTA V game extend well beyond the ability to brutalize and murder women. You can read about them here. The whole franchise contains an deep undercurrent of misogyny and promotes the objectification of women. I haven't read the entire petition that was filed, but the fact of the matter is that GTA is deeply, deeply problematic with regards to its treatment of women and only worsens a long tradition of misogyny in video games.

[!Blue!]

Sad creatures

[Komet blu]

Where can I place mah order??

[Mekitor]

Where are these men? I want to join them and give them some men to men affection. They need that support.

[Thomasuxx]

People are so stupid

[Lady Claire]

Originally posted by Homogenic

If straight people would run twitters & wear t-shirts with some **** like ''End heterophobia'' I wonder if you would consider that a joke as well and laugh.

This meninist ******** is problematic, it's not a joke because that is exactly the way most straight guys think about women / girls and the point of ''making fun of feminism bc it's annoying'' just proves how important and needed feminism is.

This.

[Phoenetic]

Originally posted by Sazare

Except this "small minority" in no way represents actual feminism and this small minority is so small it's hardly worth mentioning anyway. In fact, I'm not sure any women who actually do any of these things would actually identify as feminists.

And moreover, while it's true that there are a select few social norms that benefit women over men, and you acknowledge this yourself, they're so far and few between that that's also negligible in comparison to what's afforded to men, to the point where it seems absurd here to even bring them up. It seems about on par with bringing up the fact that gays get their own bars and clubs while straights don't in a discussion about gay rights.

I agree that the small minority doesn't represent feminism in any way. Sadly, they are a very vocal minority and are often the cause for why some people don't take feminism serious when it definitely should be taken serious.
I agree that the issues are much, much worse for women.
I agree that the focus right now should clearly be on women's rights/treatment, not men.
I don't agree that the fact that men do have some issues should be completely ignored however. I get really annoyed when I'm made out to be some kind of perverted pig who only thinks about sex for example, which happens fairly often to regular men. I don't believe these type of prejudices should be ignored entirely.

Originally posted by Sazare

The accusations of misogyny in the GTA V game extend well beyond the ability to brutalize and murder women. You can read about them here. The whole franchise contains an deep undercurrent of misogyny and promotes the objectification of women. I haven't read the entire petition that was filed, but the fact of the matter is that GTA is deeply, deeply problematic with regards to its treatment of women and perpetuates a long tradition of misogyny in video games.

I think this quote from Rockstar's Dan Houser on that page basically sums it up for me:

But is their [critics'] argument that in a game about gangsters and thugs and street life, there are prostitutes and strippers—that that is inappropriate? I don't think we revel in the mistreatment of women at all. I just think in the world we're representing, in Grand Theft Auto, that it's appropriate.

Let me start with full disclosure: I didn't play GTA 5. I did play GTA Vice City though, and reading the page you linked me I see the way women were portrayed in Vice City was the same as in GTA 5.

Yes, the way women are portrayed can be considered inappropriate. The way lots of things are portrayed in GTA can be considered inappropriate. You can kill people in the most gruesome way possible for god's sake. GTA's entire world is about being inappropriate. I don't think GTA ever made it out to be a good thing. It's not glorifying all the inappropriate **** that's going on in their world, in fact, GTA usually shows how ****ed up it is. That is why I agree with the quote: the world is ****ed up and it shows it. It is appropriate in GTA's world because it is inappropriate, and it doesn't hide that fact.

The moment a game makes that type of depiction of women out to be a good thing, that's the moment I'll complain. But this idea that no games should ever include any social commentary, because it is inappropriate, doesn't sit well with me. I don't think it'd be right to say a game should never include sexism, mental disorders, racial issues, etc. even if this is the core of the game. Even if this is what the game is about.

I don't like the idea of limiting games like that. If a game studio wants to make a sandbox world where everything is completely out of control and ****ed up and all morals are completely wrong, then they have the full right to do so.

I often run into jokes about or dumb depictions of mental disorders in games and movies. For personal reasons I could be very offended by it and wish it to be removed from the stores. But I don't, as I believe those games and movies have a right to exist. Even if I don't agree with what they say or show.

The moment those games/movies start acting like it's a good thing to make jokes about mental disorders, or to depict mental disorders a certain way, that is the moment I will start complaining. Otherwise, I won't.