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Discussion: How many genders are there?
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 25,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
atheism isn't religion
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Did I say it was
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by DevonDreams
I don't know about, but It's really weird how a predominately gay forum is against people wanting to be themselves. Only because that's a group that's had a history of being oppressed and the same excuses that are used in this thread were and are used for same sex relationships.
Just seems ridiculous.
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it absolutely is ridiculous
hilarious, even
the fact that I'm here on this forum with other fanny bandits like myself, reading their comments suggesting that the concept of gender identity should be limited to a binary of two clearly distinguishable categories when they're also some of the first ones furiously pounding away on their keyboards in threads concerning issues related to homosexual culture and relationships
do you all not realize that by arguing against the idea that gender is fluid your and inadvertently validating the same archaic, pervasive, hyper-masculine ideals that have been used to oppress you and other like you for centuries to the point that people who agree with this kind of thinking would literally consider it acceptable to murderously eradicate your kind as if you were a separate species?
do you realize that by likening socially unacceptable gender identities to a need for medical treatment you are making yourself sound just as stupid as people who would argue that there are inherently "feminine" practices (like enjoying pop music and sleeping with other men, for instance) that would be considered degrading and emasculating if a man were to engage in them?
but y'all willfully clueless, paternally-impaired-Oedipus-complex'd social rejects wanna raise ya eyebrows and retort in a haughty tone when a straight person asks, "so who's the man and who's the woman?"
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
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Quote:
Originally posted by DevonDreams
I don't know about, but It's really weird how a predominately gay forum is against people wanting to be themselves. Only because that's a group that's had a history of being oppressed and the same excuses that are used in this thread were and are used for same sex relationships.
Just seems ridiculous.
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wtf? how are people who say they have some magical extra biological sex oppressed? maybe you should've quoted a different post.
also, using your gender as a way to "be yourself" is stupid and unhealthy. gender isn't a means of self expression, it's a fact of your life.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 806
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 8,969
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Sex: male, female, and intersex
Gender: social construct, potentially unlimited
/thread
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
wtf? how are people who say they have some magical extra biological sex oppressed? maybe you should've quoted a different post.
also, using your gender as a way to "be yourself" is stupid and unhealthy. gender isn't a means of self expression, it's a fact of your life.
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it's a fact of your life that is often physically expressed in the way that one behaves and dresses, so no,
using your gender as a way to be yourself is not "stupid," it is wonted
that argument is like saying that using words to communicate your thoughts and feelings on a forum is stupid because thoughts and feelings are just a part of your nature
it's feeble and makes less sense than the question being asked in the OP
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Banned
Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 18,398
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aqua
2. Male and female. These can be applied to transgender people too. No need for the 'trans' prefix.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rascal
Sex: male, female, and intersex
Gender: social construct, potentially unlimited
/thread
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
it's a fact of your life that is often physically expressed in the way that one behaves and dresses, so no,
using your gender as a way to be yourself is not "stupid," it is wonted
that argument is like saying that using words to communicate your thoughts and feelings on a forum is stupid because thoughts and feelings are just a part of your nature
it's feeble and makes less sense than the question being asked in the OP
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no, how you behave and dress isn't your gender. this is exactly the problem. a boy that likes to wear skirts is not genderqueer because of it, and this view is completely ridiculous and unhealthy. a boy that likes shopping isn't genderqueer. this stuff is crap. your gender is a fact about you.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
it absolutely is ridiculous
hilarious, even
the fact that I'm here on this forum with other fanny bandits like myself, reading their comments suggesting that the concept of gender identity should be limited to a binary of two clearly distinguishable categories when they're also some of the first ones furiously pounding away on their keyboards in threads concerning issues related to homosexual culture and relationships
do you all not realize that by arguing against the idea that gender is fluid your and inadvertently validating the same archaic, pervasive, hyper-masculine ideals that have been used to oppress you and other like you for centuries to the point that people who agree with this kind of thinking would literally consider it acceptable to murderously eradicate your kind as if you were a separate species
do you realize that by likening socially unacceptable gender identities to a need for medical treatment you are making yourself sound just as stupid as people who would argue that there are inherently "feminine" practices (like enjoying pop music and sleeping with other men, for instance) that would be considered degrading and emasculating if a man were to engage in them.
but y'all willfully clueless, paternally-impaired-Oedipus-complex'd social rejects wanna raise ua eyebrows and retort in a haughty tone when a straight person asks, " so who's the man and who's the woman?"
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I disagree. Fundamentally most people here (and in the western world) disregard gender identity as something which reflects behavioural traits of males/females. They see gender identity as a linguistic expansion of biological sex. In english "He" is most often referring to a male, not a gender, which is why we use it on animals regardless of their unique behavioural spectrum. People don't call their male dogs "she" just because they're not aggressive.
And I think theres some confusion in how we're using the term gender. If we're talking about the spectrum of things appearing masculine/feminine (being typically of males or typically of females), that is very different from gender identity. With the former there is a spectrum but only 2 real destinations (masculine/feminine). Just as there is a spectrum of temperatures but they only move in 2 directions (hotter or colder).
It should come of no surprise that the cis-gay men of ATRL, do not see their femininity as an expression of being a woman, a girl, a "she"... They are male, their gender reflects this, their personality and behaviours are not determined by their gender. More effectively, using the gender spectrum can be a way of describing/understanding some of their behaviours against male/female archetypes but not as a means to identify them. Just because I may be feminine, does not mean I carry the female pronoun of "she" or perceive myself as a female gender.
Removing the toxic stereotypes from society (imo) is more to do with disowning gender as meaningful way of labelling people outside of their sex, which in itself doesn't have any strict boundaries of behaviour/character. Empowering the term gender and using it as a way to reinforce feelings of otherness seems kind of counterproductive.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
no, how you behave and dress isn't your gender. this is exactly the problem. a boy that likes to wear skirts is not genderqueer because of it, and this view is completely ridiculous and unhealthy. a boy that likes shopping isn't genderqueer. this stuff is crap. your gender is a fact about you.
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I did not say that how you dress and behave is your gender
I said that gender is often expressed in the way that people dress and behave
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,208
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Gender is not a "social construct" and it is beyond me why so many people keep saying this
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Otter
I disagree. Fundamentally most people here (and in the western world) disregard gender identity as something which reflects behavioural traits of males/females. They see gender identity as a linguistic expansion of biological sex. In english "He" is most often referring to a male, not a gender, which is why we use it on animals regardless of their unique behavioural spectrum. People don't call their male dogs "she" just because they're not aggressive.
And I think theres some confusion in how we're using the term gender. If we're talking about the spectrum of things appearing masculine/feminine (being typically of males or typically of females), that is very different from gender identity. With the former there is a spectrum but only 2 real destinations (masculine/feminine). Just as there is a spectrum of temperatures but they only move in 2 directions (hotter or colder).
It should come of no surprise that the cis-gay men of ATRL, do not see their femininity as an expression of being a woman, a girl, a "she"... They are male, their gender reflects this, their personality and behaviours are not determined by their gender. More effectively, using the gender spectrum can be a way of describing/understanding some of their behaviours against male/female archetypes but not as a means to identify them. Just because I may be feminine, does not mean I carry the female pronoun of "she" or perceive myself as a female gender.
Removing the toxic stereotypes from society (imo) is more to do with disowning gender as meaningful way of labelling people outside of their sex, which in itself doesn't have any strict boundaries of behaviour/character. Empowering the term gender and using it as a way to reinforce feelings of otherness seems kind of counterproductive.
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it's not about "empowering" gender and using it to reinforce feeling of "otherness"
it's about respecting the way that other people see themselves
and I did not argue that gender was a meaningful way of labeling other people
I said that it was complex, arbitrary and not something that should be put in a box
because you can't actually perceive gender,
you can only perceive the expression of it
this is what I meant when I was talking about how it's difficult to use words to describe a concept
you talmbout the way we categorize cats and dogs and bringing up what "most people" make of gender identity isn't telling me anything I don't already know
I'm less concerned with accepting the way that most people look at gender and more concerned with challenging it
most people are groomed to observe the rest of the world with a collectivist mindset that lends itself to racism, xenophobia, homophobia and several other harmful ways of thinking
this does not keep me from challenging those views either
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pharaoh
Gender is not a "social construct" and it is beyond me why so many people keep saying this
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gen·der
/jendər/
noun
1.the state of being male or female ( typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
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"Gender is a socially constructed definition of women and men. It is not the same as sex (biological characteristics of women and men) and it is not the same as women. Gender is determined by the conception of tasks, functions and roles attributed to women and men in society and in public and private life."
(link)
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"Gender is defined by FAO as ‘the relations between men and women, both perceptual and material. Gender is not determined biologically, as a result of sexual characteristics of either women or men, but is constructed socially..."
(link)
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"Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally."
(link)
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is Google beyond you as well?
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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2. Male and female. Anyone who doesn't fit themselves in thid category is nonbinary/asexual. Which means they don't have a gender but there are still only 2.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
it's not about "empowering" gender and using it to reinforce feeling of "otherness"
it's about respecting the way that other people see themselves
and I did not argue that gender was a meaningful way of labeling other people
I said that it was complex, arbitrary and not something that should be put in a box
because you can't actually perceive gender,
you can only perceive the expression of it
this is what I meant when I was talking about how it's difficult to use words to describe a concept
you talmbout the way we categorize cats and dogs and bringing up what "most people" make of gender identity isn't telling me anything I don't already know
I'm less concerned with accepting the way that most people look at gender and more concerned with challenging it
most people are groomed to observe the rest of the world with a collectivist mindset that lends itself to racism, xenophobia, homophobia and several other harmful ways of thinking
this does not keep me from challenging those views either
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Well then I mostly agree with you. I'm all for people self-identifying however they want, but equally I think the progress in society is in challenging how we see males/females, not suggesting that people are something other. Which is why, when the question is posed I will say there are 2/3 genders. Anything beyond that, you have the right to self identify as but they're not observable in any meaningful way.
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Member Since: 3/1/2012
Posts: 5,765
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Male, female, intersex. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously if you say you're a gender other than those 3. I still will respect you but ngl I just can't take you seriously and so do the 90% of the world's population.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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There are two genders, that in no way limit how you can express your gender. done and done
EDIT: I still haven't heard a valid reason for there being more. Not something that can be proven by science or even logically. Saying you're a man in no way obligates you to prefer the colour blue over pink or wear pants instead of dresses. Maybe it's more expected of you to but it isn't essential to have that gender
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
Male, female, intersex. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously if you say you're a gender other than those 3. I still will respect you but ngl I just can't take you seriously and so do the 90% of the world's population.
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I really don't think all of you who keep saying this even understand what it means to be intersex
(or the difference between sex and gender for that matter, but I mean...)
Intersex is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. ( http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex)
this has everything to do with sex and nothing to do with gender
it is anatomical, not mental
gender is social
sex is biological
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
I really don't think all of you who keep saying this even understand what it means to be intersex
(or the difference between sex and gender for that matter, but I mean...)
Intersex is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. ( http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex)
this has everything to do with sex and nothing to do with gender
it is anatomical, not mental
gender is social
sex is biological
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Gender being a social construct, people can pretty much construct it as they will. People here are deconstructing gender to sex (its real origin). That is their "social construct" of gender.
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