Quote:
Originally posted by Staunch_Character
Yes those pictures are broad-brush representations of masc and fem gays, but remove the pics and the point still stands.
The OP cites a study outlining the problematic opinions of "masc4masc" gays towards feminine gays, which is a common talking point on ATRL. I was simply pointing out that the reverse is also true. If a similar study were conducted asking if "straight-acting" gays gave the community a bad name, I'm sure the percentage would be just as high or higher. This kind of narrow thinking permeates all subsects of the gay male community.
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This is.... a fallacy.
It's like saying "I'm SURE there'd be just as high as % of POC saying white people are awful for being racist as there is for white people saying POC are awful! We can't judge either way!!".
Masc4masc gays are seen as awful because they're oppressive, misogynistic and homophobic. Their blatant prejudices are why people get angry at them, while they get mad at feminine gay men for their natural voices or body mannerisms and innate gender expression. The comparison... is just non-sensical and impossible to take seriously.
Masc4masc gay men are oppressive in their beliefs and that's why they're criticized.
Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
I think there's a difference between being "gay" and expressing femininity.
There's:
Straight guys who are feminine
Straight guys who are masc
Gay guys who are feminine
Gay guys who are masc
While there's often overlap, I don't see how it means they're intrinsically linked.
The issue I see is that it's less bout "self-hate" and more about gender conformation.
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There are gender expectations on how one performs their gender.
Societal expectations on manhood includes heterosexuality. Being gay is seen as performing your gender incorrectly or poorly. This is why being gay has been looked down on for centuries (let alone horrible beliefs like being gay means you wanted to be the opposite sex, or that gay folks are lessor versions of their gender/sex). Also why so many gay men overcompensate their masculinity and end up with things like muscle dysphoria to toxic masculinity.
Straight feminine men can be victims to
misdirected homophobia.
It's completely ridiculous to ignore how blatantly femininity (and the hatred of it) is connected to homophobia and a hatred of men who like men and how much misogyny/heteropatriarchy also informs the ideas of homophobia.
If you take an issue with a man being feminine, ESPECIALLY a gay man being feminine, you have at least SOME kind of internalized issue with how you believe gender must be performed and it's silly to try and ignore the reality of how being gay is coded in gender expression, etc.
