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Poll: Fighter vs Behind These Hazel Eys: Better Pop/Rock Smash?
View Poll Results: More iconic pop/rock ballad?
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Behind These Hazel Eyes
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96 |
53.04% |
Fighter
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85 |
46.96% |
Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
Receipts? And I'm looking at the year end charts for 2003, 2004, and 2005 and seeing a pretty equal amount of pop and urban on them. Urban was just a big deal for those years.
And again, how was it a bigger era if there are not any receipts or solid reasoning to say so? Hot 100 aside, Kelly's album charted longer, sold more, and won more awards.
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You really don't know or seem to be feigning ignorance
I don't know what kind of receipts you need for an obvious fact. Look at all the #1s in 2003 and 2004. In 2003, they even made a special mention of how certain weeks of The Hot 100 were nothing but urban music and/or there were no white people at on the Top 10 of the charts. Think to how big songs like Toxic and My Happy Ending barely went Top 10. Rhythmic radio weren't playing pop material at all whereas before for years they would play crossover pop.
Kelly's album sold more because there was more focus on the AC markets, which as we know lead to more album sales. That doesn't make it a bigger era overall though. And neither does winning more Grammys especially when you're comparing between one and two
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,415
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
You really don't know or seem to be feigning ignorance
I don't know what kind of receipts you need for an obvious fact. Look at all the #1s in 2003 and 2004. In 2003, they even made a special mention of how certain weeks of The Hot 100 were nothing but urban music and/or there were no white people at on the charts. Think to how songs like Toxic and My Happy Ending barely went Top 10. Rhythmic radio weren't playing pop material at all whereas before for years they would play crossover pop.
Kelly's album sold more because there was more focus on the AC markets, which as we know lead to more album sales. That doesn't make it a bigger era overall though. And neither does winning more Grammys especially when you're comparing between one and two. deadbanana2:
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Kelly was capable of breaking through in an Urban dominated era. No need to get bitter because your fav couldn't
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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At atrlster, even without the Hot 100 "controversy". Breakaway still sold more, won more awards and accolades, its singles are still played often in today's radio stations, and Since U Been Gone has gone on to be thought of as one of the best songs of all time and pinpointed as a blueprint for future hits by other artists by critics. Along with the singles being better received by critics. In what way was Stripped the bigger era? Many supporting Kelly in this thread have asked this with no solid answer. So, please provide that now (I'll be waiting).
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Member Since: 8/7/2012
Posts: 2,243
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
Stripped:
-Dirty: #48
-Beautiful: #2
-Fighter: #20
-Can't Hold Us Down: #12
-The Voice Within: #33
US Sales: 4.2 million
WW Sales: 12 million
Awards:
-Grammy for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance with Beautiful
"In the United States, the album became the tenth best-selling album of 2003, and Aguilera was ranked as the fifth most successful pop artist of the year."
Sales receipts: http://web.archive.org/web/200607042...geous_fortune?
http://www.billboard.com/articles/co...nds-up-at-no-2
Breakaway:
-Breakaway: #6
-Since U Been Gone: #2
-Behind These Hazel Eyes: #6
-Because of You: #7
-Walk Away: #12
US Sales: 6.3 million
WW Sales: 15 million
Awards:
-Grammy for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance with Since U Been Gone
-Grammy for Pop Vocal Album with Breakaway
-AMA for Artist of the Year (2005)
-AMA for Favorite AC Artist (2005)
-AMA for Favorite Pop/Rock Female Artist (2006)
-9 Billboard Awards
-4 Teen Choice Awards
-3 VMA's
"By the end of 2005, Breakaway became the year's third best-selling album in the United States, according to Nielsen Soundscan."
"By the end of 2005, the album became the world's seventh best-selling release of the year according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry."
"Became the first title in five years to spend its entire year in the top twenty of the chart."
Sales receipts:
http://www.universalmusic.com/corporate/detail/593
http://www.billboard.com/articles/co...oar?page=0%2C2
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clock 'em!
LOL at Xtina stans saying Stripped was bigger than Breakaway. Sorry but that was Kelly's prime and Stripped can't touch that.
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
Kelly was capable of breaking through in an Urban dominated era. No need to get bitter because your fav couldn't
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Huh? In the same era, I'm talking about without digital downloads, Kelly couldn't. Miss Independent wen Top 10 (but barely) and the other two singles did even worse.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
You really don't know or seem to be feigning ignorance
I don't know what kind of receipts you need for an obvious fact. Look at all the #1s in 2003 and 2004. In 2003, they even made a special mention of how certain weeks of The Hot 100 were nothing but urban music and/or there were no white people at on the charts. Think to how songs like Toxic and My Happy Ending barely went Top 10. Rhythmic radio weren't playing pop material at all whereas before for years they would play crossover pop.
Kelly's album sold more because there was more focus on the AC markets, which as we know lead to more album sales. That doesn't make it a bigger era overall though. And neither does winning more Grammys especially when you're comparing between one and two. deadbanana2:
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?
How in the world is it an "obvious fact" that urban music had higher AI, rhythmic music was selective, etc? That's not obvious at all, that's something I want to see receipts for. Again, urban music was huge those years. And it's not like rhythmic radio was playing Pop music in 2005 either.....especially Kelly's music.
And receipts on the "there was more focus on the AC markets which lead to more album sales"? Because that just sounds like a bad excuse.
I've asked several times, yet you still haven't told me why Stripped was a bigger era if it didn't sell as much, didn't chart as longer, didn't have singles as big, and didn't win as many awards.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Behind These Hazel Eyes is one of my favorite songs from my childhood. Everything about it is perfect.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Huh? In the same era, I'm talking about without digital downloads, Kelly couldn't. Miss Independent wen Top 10 (but barely) and the other two singles did even worse.
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Miss Independent wasn't that big comparatively, and that era was mediocre.
I am not sure what you are trying to prove.
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
At atrlster, even without the Hot 100 "controversy". Breakaway still sold more, won more awards and accolades, its singles are still played often in today's radio stations, and Since U Been Gone has gone on to be thought of as one of the best songs of all time and pinpointed as a blueprint for future hits by other artists by critics. Along with the singles being better received by critics. In what way was Stripped the bigger era? Many supporting Kelly in this thread have asked this with no solid answer. So, please provide that now (I'll be waiting).
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We know Pop rock gets more recurrent airplay because the HAC format exists. And Beautiful is thought of as one of the best pop songs, and has been well praised, has become a blueprint, also etc
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Huh? In the same era, I'm talking about without digital downloads, Kelly couldn't. Miss Independent wen Top 10 (but barely) and the other two singles did even worse.
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He means Kelly slayed with Breakaway during a time when urban was the best selling music. One of the big competing albums of the time was Usher's Confessions, one of the best selling albums of the millenium thus far. If you're honestly calling Miss Independent urban...
Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
We know Pop rock gets more recurrent airplay because the HAC format exists. And Beautiful is thought of as one of the best pop songs, and has been well praised, has become a blueprint, also etc
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I'm still waiting for my answer as to why Stripped is bigger? And the petty excuse of Breakaway singles being replayed more on the account of them being a pop-rock is a piss-poor excuse, especially with Christina fans proclaiming—as if it's fact—that Fighter is the best pop-rock song of the 2000's. That excuse is moot. The singles replay more today because the era was more successful. Now, again, explain why Stripped was the bigger era.
And both Because of You and Since U Been Gone received universal critical acclaim, with the latter being listed as one of the best songs of all time by Rolling Stones and also commonly being ranked as one of the best break up songs of all time on MANY different lists. Since U Been Gone's impact, alone, is insane.
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
Miss Independent wasn't that big comparatively, and that era was mediocre.
I am not sure what you are trying to prove.
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Miss Independent did very well on Pop radio. If downloads had existed, it would not barely go Top 10 or spend that little time in the Hot 100 Top 10.
Do you think a song like Toxic would have peaked at #9 had downloads existed then?
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
We know Pop rock gets more recurrent airplay because the HAC format exists. And Beautiful is thought of as one of the best pop songs, and has been well praised, has become a blueprint, also etc
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So what does the fact that Kelly chose a better sound commercially have to do with which was bigger?
(Not saying I am agreeing with you.)
Success is success.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Miss Independent did very well on Pop radio. If downloads had existed, it would not barely go Top 10 or spend that little time in the Hot 100 Top 10.
Do you think a song like Toxic would have peaked at #9 had downloads existed then?
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Ok. I think I see what you are saying.
Hot 100 positions are not a perfect metric of course. However, album sales ARE and Kelly sold more despite the fact that album sales went down 11% between 2002 and 2004.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
He means Kelly slayed with Breakaway during a time when urban was the best selling music. One of the big competing albums of the time was Usher's Confessions, one of the best selling albums of the millenium thus far. If you're honestly calling Miss Independent urban...
I'm still waiting for my answer as to why Stripped is bigger? And the petty excuse of Breakaway singles being replayed more on the account of them being a pop-rock is a piss-poor excuse, especially with Christina fans proclaiming—as if it's fact—that Fighter is the best pop-rock song of the 2000's. That excuse is moot. The singles replay more today because the era was more successful. Now, again, explain why Stripped was the bigger era.
And both Because of You and Since U Been Gone received universal critical acclaim, with the latter being listed as one of the best songs of all time by Rolling Stones and also commonly being ranked as one of the best break up songs of all time on MANY different lists. Since U Been Gone's impact, alone, is insane.
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mte
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
?
How in the world is it an "obvious fact" that urban music had higher AI, rhythmic music was selective, etc? That's not obvious at all, that's something I want to see receipts for. Again, urban music was huge those years. And it's not like rhythmic radio was playing Pop music in 2005 either.....especially Kelly's music.
And receipts on the "there was more focus on the AC markets which lead to more album sales"? Because that just sounds like a bad excuse.
I've asked several times, yet you still haven't told me why Stripped was a bigger era if it didn't sell as much, didn't chart as longer, didn't have singles as big, and didn't win as many awards.
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Then if its not an obvious fact to you, I guess you really were unaware of that fact. Rhythmic radio wasn't playing Kelly, but there were digital digital downloads incorporated
It's not a bad excuse. It's known that HAC/AC audiences tend to be bigger album buyers than pop listeners.
Like I said, Stripped had way more impact. Just because Breakaway has sold a certain number doesn't mean it's undeniably bigger than any other era after or before it based on that number alone
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 6,778
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lmao xtina fans will do anything to make it sound like stripped was bigger than it actually was. that album had ONE big hit while breakaway had four, and we all know which sold more. the only way to truly measure success of pop songs at that time is the pop radio chart, where kelly had three #1's and two top 5's, and xtina had one #1 and two top 5's
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Then if its not an obvious fact to you, I guess you really were unaware of that fact. Rhythmic radio wasn't playing Kelly, but there were digital digital downloads incorporated
It's not a bad excuse. It's known that HAC/AC audiences tend to be bigger album buyers than pop listeners.
Like I said, Stripped had way more impact. Just because Breakaway has sold a certain number doesn't mean it's undeniably bigger than any other era after or before it based on that number alone
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It's not an obvious fact to a lot of people, which is why I'm asking for some receipts on how Urban music had advantage/higher AI, rhythmic was selective, etc.
And again, that does sound like an excuse saying "AC audiences are bigger album buyers" and you are not even showing me some receipts saying that's true. Even if it was, Beautiful and The Voice Within were both AC type songs so I don't see what your point is.
Saying "It had more impact" has no merit when there's absolutely nothing to back it up with, I've been asking throughout this thread for some reasons and you haven't given any. Sure it had impact, nobody is denying that, but Breakaway was the bigger era according to the receipts.
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
I'm still waiting for my answer as to why Stripped is bigger? And the petty excuse of Breakaway singles being replayed more on the account of them being a pop-rock is a piss-poor excuse, especially with Christina fans proclaiming—as if it's fact—that Fighter is the best pop-rock song of the 2000's. That excuse is moot. The singles replay more today because the era was more successful. Now, again, explain why Stripped was the bigger era.
And both Because of You and Since U Been Gone received universal critical acclaim, with the latter being listed as one of the best songs of all time by Rolling Stones and also commonly being ranked as one of the best break up songs of all time on MANY different lists. Since U Been Gone's impact, alone, is insane.
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Fighter is not a pop rock song in the same way that we call Kelly/Pink/Avril songs "pop rock".
It's way heavier and wasn't a HAC hit because it didn't fit the mold of how "pop-rock" was defined on radio.
People just call females trying to do rock music "pop-rock" as a general term, but it doesn't make it all the same type of music or music that HAC would play.
So seeing as Fighter wasn't a HAC hit, it's not surprising she's not going to get recurrent play there. And obviously her other singles didn't really fit HAC either.
Again, Beautiful's impact is insane too, so not sure what you're trying to get at.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
lmao xtina fans will do anything to make it sound like stripped was bigger than it actually was. that album had ONE big hit while breakaway had four, and we all know which sold more. the only way to truly measure success of pop songs at that time is the pop radio chart, where kelly had three #1's and two top 5's, and xtina had one #1 and two top 5's
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Yup. On the chart which is not effected by AC or Urban Kelly won.
....but they will desperately cling to Stripped anyways.
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