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Discussion: Affirmative Action
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
States pass the laws determining admissions standards.
The Fed determines financial aid.
The schools themselves really have no say. Unless you are talking private schools...... which are a horrible idea anyways.
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I know you aren't coming for the Ivy League, ha lacefront, 100% genuine Rocachian weave.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saint
Yeah, I'm talking about private schools but every state is different when it comes to their public university admissions |
Private school are **** and no one should consider going to a for profit university EVER.
You should watch the Frontline documentary "College Inc".
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
There are far better ways imo.
The system as it stand just fosters resentment. Which makes racist attitudes at large worse, not better.
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All of my white friends fully understand it. Are you developing resentment and racist attitudes?
Tbh, if institutionalized racism never existed I would still make race a factor to diversify the student body
If I'm the admissions head at Cal Poly, where Asian Students makeup over 40% of the student body and black students make up only about 0.7%, and I get two applications that are exactly the same, except one guy is a minority in our student body, I'm going to choose the guy that's a minority. It helps diversify the student body, contributes to better stats for the school, and will also enrich the college experience as a whole.
This is coming from a guy that was 1 of 2 blacks in his freshman chemistry lecture, that had 215 students 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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As an Asian, it doesn't benefit me, but I'll try to keep that out of my argument.
I think that it isn't a good thing. If somebody is smarter or more qualified for a job, they should get a job regardless of their race or ethnicity. THAT is what I call equality, and I believe equality is very important.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Not talking about the Ivy League. Though they are pretty damn irrelevant to this issue, since the VAST bulk of students go to regular schools.
Even if every damn student in every Ivy League school was a minority it would make almost no difference in the bigger picture because of how small those schools are in the larger scheme of things.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
All of my white friends fully understand it. Are you developing resentment and racist attitudes?
Tbh, if institutionalized racism never existed I would still make race a factor to diversify the student body
If I'm the admissions head at Cal Poly, where Asian Students makeup over 40% of the student body and black students make up only about 0.7%, and I get two applications that are exactly the same, except one guy is a minority in our student body, I'm going to choose the guy that's a minority. It helps diversify the student body, contributes to better stats for the school, and will also enrich the college experience as a whole.
This is coming from a guy that was 1 of 2 blacks in his freshman chemistry lecture, that had 215 students |
That is great.... unless you are the kid who isn't the minority.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
Majority is more than half. What evidence do you have that a white person in poverty would be more likely to apply than someone of another race?
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Your point is that giving more points would to need-based applicants will increase the amount of diversity of a school, and I said no it wouldn't b/c when you open up to every race only a small amount of the desired race would benefit. And my evidence is sheer numbers of white people. And there are more white applicants, "minorities" are not one group.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 18,655
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
I know you aren't coming for the Ivy League, ha lacefront, 100% genuine Rocachian weave.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
Private school are **** and no one should consider going to a for profit university EVER.
You should watch the Frontline documentary "College Inc".
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Yeah but what are you gonna do?
People don't care look at that when it comes to school. It's all about which is more prestigious instead of which is better suited for me.
If it came on PBS, i've probably already seen it because that was the only channel I used watch until recently 
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Your point is that giving more points would to need-based applicants will increase the amount of diversity of a school, and I said no it wouldn't b/c when you open up to every race only a small amount of the desired race would benefit. And my evidence is sheer numbers of white people. And there are more white applicants, "minorities" are not one group.
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The number of white people is 100% irrelevant since most would not even be eligible to apply.
What I am proposing is quota's based on financial need. Which would be overwhelmingly non-white.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
That is great.... unless you are the kid who isn't the minority.
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Which doesn't matter b/c the school had an incentive to pick him over the non-minority. Plus if both students have the same score, why does the white kid deserve it more? What's the incentive to choose him?
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
The number of white people is 100% irrelevant since most would not even be eligible to apply.
What I am proposing is quota's based on financial need. Which would be overwhelmingly non-white.
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Most wouldn't, but they would be the largest group in the population that is being targeted, which is the point.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
Not talking about the Ivy League. Though they are pretty damn irrelevant to this issue, since the VAST bulk of students go to regular schools.
Even if every damn student in every Ivy League school was a minority it would make almost no difference in the bigger picture because of how small those schools are in the larger scheme of things.
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I was just making a joke, girl. We're all friends here. 
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Which doesn't matter b/c the school had an incentive to pick him over the non-minority. Plus if both students have the same score, why does the white kid deserve it more? What's the incentive to choose him?
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In real life it would never actually be equal. Too many factors come into play.
The problem comes that once you factor in race, inevitably there will be instances where a more qualified person of one race will be passed over by a less qualified person based on their skin color.
I know you don't agree, but to me that is racism no matter what your skin color is.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Which doesn't matter b/c the school had an incentive to pick him over the non-minority. Plus if both students have the same score, why does the white kid deserve it more? What's the incentive to choose him?
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He was just saying that it would SUCK to be that kid, knowing that you were denied because of your race.
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Member Since: 4/14/2011
Posts: 48,397
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I think affirmative action promotes discrimination, but I believe that when looking at college applications colleges need to be mindful of the conditions of a student. If a student whose parents work full time and earn less than 40k a year, has three siblings and goes to a not so stellar high school gets a 1400 on the SAT and does lots of community service, that is more impressing that a student who does the same but with his parents earning more and paying for SAT classes, better computers, more opportunities in general. So when it comes to college I do not believe in race based affirmative action but I say yes to look at how a student has done in comparison to his peers. When it comes to the workforce (specially professional careers) I believe in affirmative action because there is so much racism there. Some people won't hire someone just because of them having a "nonwhite name" in their resumés. It is not correct to assume someone will be a bad worker because of his name. A name can't tell you much other than the ethnic background and taste of a person's parents.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexanderao
He was just saying that it would SUCK to be that kid, knowing that you were denied because of your race.
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But he didn't get denied b/c of his race. He got denied b/c his score was not higher than the other person, and he offered no other reason to accept him.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
That is great.... unless you are the kid who isn't the minority.
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This is to improve an entire student body's experience, that kid will get over his hurt feelings.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
But he didn't get denied b/c of his race. He got denied b/c his score was not higher than the other person, and he offered no other reason to accept him.
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If schools use a point system that includes race... it is INEVITABLE that some people with better scores and gpa will get passed over because they are not a minority.
It is already well documented that this happens. It is not a revelation.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
This is to improve an entire student body's experience, that kid will get over his hurt feelings.
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You have provided no evidence that the same could not be achieved by basing admissions based on income and poverty rather than race.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
In real life it would never actually be equal. Too many factors come into play.
The problem comes that once you factor in race, inevitably there will be instances where a more qualified person of one race will be passed over by a less qualified person based on their skin color.
I know you don't agree, but to me that is racism no matter what your skin color is.
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It's not racism unless the school said "no whites allowed". It's a fallacy that schools pick the best students based on academics. They pick which students are best for the school, based on academics, finances, reputation, and several other factors all of which students get more or less points for equally.
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