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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 8/3/2012
Posts: 5,193
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Quote:
Originally posted by Delilah.
We're still "what if'ing" Bernie in here?
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Just as everyone is "what if'ing" Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife as president in here 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Hillary's popular vote lead is now at 2 million.
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Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... does that mean she will be president now?
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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"**** wall street bigwigs hoarding money screwing over the little guy  "
"YASSS DONALD TRUMP BILLIONAIRE TAX EVADING OUTSOURCING KING WILL BRING MY JOB BACK"
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
I just don't understand what it is that Hillary was suppose to do? Stay quiet on BLM? On the issues of equal pay and abortion? Not pretend she was a qualified woman who could break that glass ceiling and inspired millions of American women?
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no, she absolutely should have addressed these issues! she did a really good job touching on these issues! the point is the US will demographically have a white majority for the next 27 years (and then minorities will represent the majority of eligible voters) so you can't just ignore the needs of working class white voters altogether and hope that minorities will take you to victory. it just doesn't make sense, of course she lost. this kind of campaign might be practical 7 elections from now based on shifting demographics but it just wasn't going to work this time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
-Hillary rejected the thesis of 2016 being a change election because the country is, according to most OBJECTIVE metrics, IMPROVING
-Hillary had policies that would benefit working Americans regardless of race. She spoke about them very often. Minimum wage increases are identity politics? Free/affordable college is identity politics? Paid family leave is identity politics? Child care reform is identity politics? Protecting and improving Obamacare which covers 22 million previously uninsured individuals is identity politics?
I could go on forever.
White liberals and Sanders supporters are so triggered by Hillary Clinton's insistence on giving women and minorities a seat at the table that they refuse to see the bigger picture.
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sis nobody is disagreeing with you that Hillary was the better candidate and that her policies would have really benefitted minorities. the point is that appealing to only minorities by running a campaign centered around identity politics was not enough. she should have addressed all of the issues that she did, but additionally she should have addressed broad national interests the way Trump did
also I completely agree with you that by most metrics things are improving! my point is that we are living in a post-fact world and the Trump coalition that was hungry for change did not care that unemployment was at a 10 year low or that the stock markets were stable. if you look at immigration numbers there is actually a net-zero flow of illegal immigrants over our borders this year! the media has covered this! yet Trump was STILL able to scare people with the "illegal immigrants are coming to take your jobs" boogeyman.
my point is that you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! this should NOT have been a change election. if people were educated on the issues they would have realized things are actually going well for them and that unemployment in the Rust Belt is not the fault of Obama but is due to the global trend in de-industrialization. the point is that Hillary ignored the fact that this was a change election, pretended it was a status quo election, and that's why she lost.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
If you google her approval ratings as a senator and secretary of state, it's always the minorities giving her high ratings while the whites give her 65 at best. It's not rocket science that her presidential campaign wouldn't focus on the white working class like Bernie's did.
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But this.
What did she do to deserve such high praise from PoC especially in her Senator and SoS days? Not being snarky but I'm curious especially with the whole superpredator thing.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by DivaDown
Just as everyone is "what if'ing" Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife as president in here
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... does that mean she will be president now? |
No, it means her popular vote lead is 2 million votes now. Being a smartass will get you nowhere with me.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
no, she absolutely should have addressed these issues! she did a really good job touching on these issues! the point is the US will demographically have a white majority for the next 27 years (and then minorities will represent the majority of eligible voters) so you can't just ignore the needs of working class white voters altogether and hope that minorities will take you to victory. it just doesn't make sense, of course she lost. this kind of campaign might be practical 7 elections from now based on shifting demographics but it just wasn't going to work this time.
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But how did she ignore them tho, that's my question? Because she didn't promise a lie to bring back coal jobs? What?
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
So Trump's appealing to the white electorate mostly = not identity politics. I see now.
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His strategy wouldn't really qualify as identity politics, because his platform wasn't based on white identity or preservation, but rather addressing the frustrations that have been silenced for being "politically incorrect", which happened to mostly appeal to white America.
White America is simply fed up with illegal immigration and liberals trying to pretend its acceptable or normal. White America is terrified of radical Islam and aren't willing to put their safety at risk for the sake of political correctness. And after having to deal with a Black president for 8 years, they weren't about to be ignored for another 4.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
But this.
What did she do to deserve such high praise from PoC especially in her Senator and SoS days? Not being snarky but I'm curious especially with the whole superpredator thing.
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I'm guessing she did a great a job as a senator hence why she got reelected by twice the votes of her opponent. And the SoS thing I can't justify because that gig literally has nothing to do with everyday Americans so it's just a testament to her likability at the time.
And superpredator wasn't a thing until Bernie made it a thing in the primaries.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
His strategy wouldn't really qualify as identity politics, because his platform wasn't based on white identity or preservation, but rather addressing the frustrations that have been silenced for being "politically incorrect", which happened to mostly appeal to white America.
White America is simply fed up with illegal immigration and liberals trying to pretend its acceptable or normal. White America is terrified of radical Islam and aren't willing to put their safety at risk for the sake of political correctness. And after having to deal with a Black president for 8 years, they weren't about to be ignored for another 4.
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But if his messages are focused and more exclusive to white people then how is that not identity politics? Because he doesn't explicitly say "Make White America Great Again"?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 2,656
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Bernie's "Our Revolution" book is amazing! I highly suggest people pick it up!
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Trump ran on a southern strategy 2.0 which is the worst kind of identity politics strategy lol
No one divided people more than he did. Let's not rewrite history.
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
But it is not good enough for somebody to say, “Hey, I’m a Latina. Vote for me.” That is not good enough. I have to know whether that Latina is going to stand up with the working class of this country and is going to take on big-money interests.
And then, after backing up to stress the need for diversity in politics—“We need 50 women in the Senate. We need more African-Americans.”—he hammered home his point about “where there’s going to be a division in the Democratic Party”:
“It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman. Vote for me,’” he said. “What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry.”
“One of the struggles that you’re going to be seeing in the Democratic Party is whether we go beyond identity politics.”
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I don't see what is so controversial about what he said? When it comes down to I think we can all agree with it. I mean are liberals going to vote Ann Coulter just because she is a woman? Would Ben Carson be better for the African American community than Clinton-Kane because he is black and they are white? I agree with Sanders to the extent you can't just give people something to vote against, you have to give them something to vote for.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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NE is so ****ing off his rocker lmfaooooooo i am gagging. rejecting the blatant white nationalist core of trump's candidacy and legitimizing White America's racist paranoia in a single post because he still harbors resentment for a white woman who lost the election weeks ago
stop trying to act relieved she lost, that her loss is somehow a silver lining, like you took a deep breath and exhaled when the results rolled in and said "phew, at least hillary clinton isn't president"
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Member Since: 6/28/2009
Posts: 6,960
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
-Hillary rejected the thesis of 2016 being a change election because the country is, according to most OBJECTIVE metrics, IMPROVING
-Hillary had policies that would benefit working Americans regardless of race. She spoke about them very often. Minimum wage increases are identity politics? Free/affordable college is identity politics? Paid family leave is identity politics? Child care reform is identity politics? Protecting and improving Obamacare which covers 22 million previously uninsured individuals is identity politics?
I could go on forever.
White liberals and Sanders supporters are so triggered by Hillary Clinton's insistence on giving women and minorities a seat at the table that they refuse to see the bigger picture.
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I love your posts so much, preach girl 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
But how did she ignore them tho, that's my question? Because she didn't promise a lie to bring back coal jobs? What?
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Yes, she could have done what Trump and Bernie did which was promise to bring back industrial jobs (specifically coal jobs in Trump's case). instead she said she would introduce a re-education program to bring clean energy jobs and information-based jobs to the Rust Belt. for obvious reasons, this did not resonate with the Rust Belt voters who felt they did not have time to learn a new trade when they needed to feed their families right now and felt that they shouldn't have to learn a new trade when the Rust Belt was already uniquely well-suited to industrial jobs
she promised glibly to keep special interests out of politics but these promises felt insincere when
(1) Trump and Bernie had concrete proposals about how they would do this - Trump by placing a term limit on representatives and Bernie by working to pass legislation to keep dark money out of elections and
(2) Hillary was a known close associate of Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street corporations
also she spent 0 time talking about how she would work with and empower labor unions in her presidency which was a huge part of Bernie's message
not to mention the fact that Hillary physically ignored them on the campaign trail
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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My problem with this whole working class business is that PoC are being pushed aside in favor of this broad brush. We're not really involved in discussion talking about working class. No one is talking about how to reach out to poor black folks in the rural South or poor Hispanics in Texas, Arizona and Florida. The fact that the working class as a group voted for Hillary is barely mentioned too. We can pretend that Bernie message is to help everyone (and I believe he's trying to) but really his message is "How dare you ignored these poor rural whites in the Rust Belt. Now pay the price for 'identity politics' "
That's just how I see it.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 11,464
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Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
His strategy wouldn't really qualify as identity politics, because his platform wasn't based on white identity or preservation, but rather addressing the frustrations that have been silenced for being "politically incorrect", which happened to mostly appeal to white America.
White America is simply fed up with illegal immigration and liberals trying to pretend its acceptable or normal. White America is terrified of radical Islam and aren't willing to put their safety at risk for the sake of political correctness. And after having to deal with a Black president for 8 years, they weren't about to be ignored for another 4.
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Much of this rubs me the wrong way. Many liberals (myself included) don't outright support illegal immigration; rather we support an accessible path to immigration, versus outright deportation, which leads to splitting up families, hurting those involved, &etc. I care about humans other than myself. Also it takes understanding to see that "radical Islam," as you called it, is a tiny, minuscule sect of Islam, a religion practiced by over 1.7 billion people around the world. To undermine the religion itself out of an objection to "political correctness" would be saying that Christianity is an inherently violent religion that has a warranted a reaction such as "terrified," due to small groups of extremists like the Westboro Baptist Church or other similar, hateful groups that in no way define the entire religion. Furthermore, what do you mean "deal with a Black president for 8 years, they weren't about to be ignored for another 4?" Is it necessary to "deal" with someone due to the pigmentation in their skin? Are you/these people unable to see past someone's race and look at the (very successful and renowned) policies they put in place, further perpetuating the stereotype that some of the Republican party is racist at heart? Is it too much for you/these people to have someone in power that is not a white, middle-to-late aged male?
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
NE is so ****ing off his rocker lmfaooooooo i am gagging. rejecting the blatant white nationalist core of trump's candidacy and legitimizing White America's racist paranoia in a single post because he still harbors resentment for a white woman who lost the election weeks ago
stop trying to act relieved she lost, that her loss is somehow a silver lining, like you took a deep breath and exhaled when the results rolled in and said "phew, at least hillary clinton isn't president"
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Girl, who's trying to ignore Trump's white nationalist core?  I never said White America's racist paranoia was warranted, I'm explaining how THEY were feeling and why Trump was victorious. Democrats underestimated the anger of the white working class while they focused on identity politics and isolated the WWC.
I'm not relieved she isn't President, I just don't care that she lost because she got what was coming to her for her dirt.
And who's harboring resentment? She's over, nobody's worried about Hillary FOH lmao.
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meh
I don't think this is a disconnect with the top of the ticket. Dems don't vote in midterms - the only exception so far is 2006 when Bush was widely hated by people on both parties. If Obama hurt downballots, then 2012 would have been a disaster. Except we actually won seats that year (including one in Indiana and keeping a seat in Montana, of all places).
IMO, we just have a bigger problem with running as a functional political party. If only every state could imitate what Harry Reid has done in Nevada, we wouldn't be in such a bad state.
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2006 is not a lone except. It's not so much that Dems do not vote in midterms, it's the incumbent's president's party loses seats. It just so happens that the incumbent president has been a Democrat for the past 8 years. Only three times in the past 100 years the party in the white house didn't lose seats; those are the real exceptions.
1934 - During the Great Depression, the GOP was discredited.
1998 - After the GOP unsuccessfully tried to impeach Clinton, a popular president at the time, which the public was vehemently against.
2002 - After 911 When Bush was very popular.
So unless a national disaster or some other act of god happens that makes Trump extremely popular, Dems are almost destined to gain seats. Dems will need a net gain of 24 seats. That is a lot and that is far from guaranteed, but it is possible. Even relatively popular presidents like Reagan and Clinton lost more than 24 seats in their first midterm.
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
His strategy wouldn't really qualify as identity politics, because his platform wasn't based on white identity or preservation, but rather addressing the frustrations that have been silenced for being "politically incorrect", which happened to mostly appeal to white America.
White America is simply fed up with illegal immigration and liberals trying to pretend its acceptable or normal. White America is terrified of radical Islam and aren't willing to put their safety at risk for the sake of political correctness. And after having to deal with a Black president for 8 years, they weren't about to be ignored for another 4.
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Poor them.
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