My apologie, I read it wrong.. It's been a long day after work.
As for the last part, when did I EVER say it's okay? You are talking about things you didn't say yet, here you are saying things I never said?!
Now, since everyone over here are into asking questions, here is one for you.
What do you expect Israel to do?
Lets say you are the prime minister of Israel right now, how do you deal with it?
Do you expecting Israel to sit down while it's under attack?Do you expect Israel to get into Gaza and hand pick terroris? And F*** Genocide use! What Putin would have done to "his Gaza strip" is genocide. You really think Isreal doesn't have the power to whip down Gaza strip?! If we are so into doing a genocide and don't care about what the world thing or about innocent people dying why haven't we just bombed the entire strip to pieces when this just started?Why bother warning people to get out of their houses before an attack, sending warnings and what not?Huh?
I never said Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself against an aerial attack. However, their response isn't proportionate. A proportional attack would be fine, a rocket for a rocket. But;
Air rockets =/= Air rockets + aggressive ground invasion/attack
But lemme leave this thread for today, I'm assuming that it'll the exact same discussions tomorrow.
I never said Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself against an aerial attack. However, their response isn't proportionate. A proportional attack would be fine, a rocket for a rocket. But;
Air rockets =/= Air rockets + aggressive ground invasion/attack
But lemme leave this thread for today, I'm assuming that it'll the exact same discussions tomorrow.
If will fire 120 rockets a day to Gaza, not only the number of dead people would be like 14890489, we will def' be hitting way more civilians.
Trust me, if we will send 120 rockets, we wouldn't miss 100 of them, we wouldn't miss 10 of them.
We got shelthers, we got alarms. They don't.
I know it's hard to understand because of the dead rate at the strip, but our army is trying it's best to minimize the damage.
Anyways, like you said, time to leave this thread. It won't change till the next time I'll come here.
I never said Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself against an aerial attack. However, their response isn't proportionate. A proportional attack would be fine, a rocket for a rocket. But;
Air rockets =/= Air rockets + aggressive ground invasion/attack
But lemme leave this thread for today, I'm assuming that it'll the exact same discussions tomorrow.
Proportionate is the dumbest excuse ever. One side will always do more damage than the other.
No, you're right, we are cold and heartless people.
So cold, so cold we send warnings to civilians to GTFO cuz' we're gonna attack that area cuz' there are terrorist over there or there were missiles fired from that place.
We are evil, we want nothing other than the whole Gaza strip dead, that's why we haven't bombed it and whiped it out.. Or wait a min'...
That's the thing, though.
You can't simply and completely 'bomb' Gaza without severe retribution and you know that.
If you do that, no one is going to have any reason to stand with Israel.
Right now, The Israeli government is only able to carry on without livid retribution because
they can call Hamas terrorists, and because they are using the 'warnings' as an excuse.
Did you read my post, from an ex-Israeli soldier? You won't hear
anything from me because from your perspective I'm 'against' you.
But I hope reading the following does something to you..
Quote:
Originally posted by Yuli Novak, former Israeli air force officer
I believed with all my heart that we were doing what needed to be done. If there were casualties, they were a necessary evil. If there were mistakes, they would be investigated.
Things have changed, and now I can no longer have that certainty. In 2002 the dropping of a one-tonne bomb on a home resulting in civilian deaths was the exception. The IDF eventually acknowledged that the assault on Shehadeh’s house had been wrong. They deemed it a failure in intelligence and said that, had they known there were civilians in the home, they would not have carried out the operation.
Seven years later, during Operation Cast Lead, there was widespread dropping of bombs over densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip. Today, in Operation Protective Edge, the air force boasts of having released over 100 one-tonne bombs on Gaza. What was once the exception is now the policy.
This is how it goes today. We notify the inhabitant about the imminent destruction of a house minutes before a bomb drops (via text messages, or by dropping a smaller bomb on the house as a warning). That is enough to turn it into a legitimate target for an air strike. In the past two weeks dozens of civilians have been killed in such strikes.
Homes of Hamas members have become legitimate targets, regardless of the number of people within their walls. Unlike in 2002, no one bothers to justify or make excuses.
What’s worse is that almost no one protests. Entire families are erased in a second, and the Israeli public remains indifferent. From year to year, from one military operation to another, our moral red lines are stretching further away. Where will they be in the next operation? Where will they be 10 years from now?
I know how hard it is to ask questions during times of conflict as a soldier. The information that the officers get in real time is always partial. That’s why the responsibility for drawing the red lines, and alerting when we cross it, lies with the public. A clear, loud voice that says that bombing a house with civilians in it is immoral must be heard. These killings cannot be accepted without question. Public silence in the face of such actions – inside and outside of Israel – is consent by default, and acceptance of an unacceptable price.
I Don't want to defend them but...
At lease they they are not thowing Stones or are burning cars and Car tires
TELL ME, ARE THEY BETTER ? DO YOU PREFER THIS ?
That isn't the whole story behind the Paris protests, I do not condone such violence;
but the way you're cherry-picking is absolutely horrible.
You're hanging on to anything at this point to make a counter-statement.
There has been thousands of peaceful protests,
the un-peaceful ratio is on par with the un-peaceful pro-Israeli ones I've seen.
For example;
Quote:
Elsewhere in the country (France), nearly 10,000 people turned out in the eastern city of
Lyon for a similar protest, though it was not banned and went off peacefully.
Also on the subject of the Paris protests; Young 'rebels' used the occasion to, exactly, rebel.
Quote:
After an initial peaceful start, police began firing tear gas when some hooded protesters
threw cans and other objects at them, and several journalists covering the event were roughed up.
-
Quote:
The rally had drawn 4,000 people to the capital's Place de la Republique,
the interior ministry said, while organisers put the turnout at 10,000.
/
There were 70 arrests and 30 (of them) have been detained,
some of whom had significant weapons, including clubs... and knuckle-dusters
For you to be cherry-picking 70 people; 30 of whom have actually been detained
is disgusting considering the amount of peaceful protesters in comparison. Get my gist?
Right now, The Israeli government is only able to carry on without livid retribution because
they can call Hamas terrorists, and because they are using the 'warnings' as an excuse.
Nnnn sis where have you seen the stuff I bolded? I've been following the thread(s) on ATRL regarding this issue and NEVER have I seen pro-Nazi/anti-Jew slander like that.....
I have expressed my distaste towards them in this thread countless times.
But a lot of people in this thread try to justify Israel's actions by using that as an excuse.
The thing is, we're all here defending civilians no one is directly defending Hamas as the good guys.
Also, a lot are using the excuse that Gazans electing Hamas justifies retribution against them...
Quote:
"Civilians who elect terrorists as leaders do NOT lose their status as civilians,
Israelis retained civilian status even after election of Irgun leader Menachem Begin
in 1977 and Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir in 1983."
I have expressed my distaste towards them in this thread countless times.
But a lot of people in this thread try to justify Israel's actions by using that as an excuse.
The thing is, we're all here defending civilians no one is directly defending Hamas as the good guys.
Also, a lot are using the excuse that Gazans electing Hamas justifies retribution against them...
The fact they elected them makes a pretty good excuse in my opinion, as the leaders they elect are supposed to represent their views and take actions they want. If they don't want to be responsible for Hamas' actions, they need to get them out of office.
The fact they elected them makes a pretty good excuse in my opinion, as the leaders they elect are supposed to represent their views and take actions they want. If they don't want to be responsible for Hamas' actions, they need to get them out of office.
First of all, they were elected in 2006, It was a different time.
Here's an article from 2006 explaining why Hamas was elected.
Also, that's your opinion. But, legally and factually -
they can elect a Terrorist organization if they wanted to and still retain civilian status.
It's not as black and white as 'throwing them out of office' -
Even if they did 'throw' them, Hamas would still be doing the same thing from the same place.
Plus. To them, Hamas is the only thing defending them at this point, so it's not that easy.
Hamas’ great ally is despair. It grows stronger when Palestinians decide that settlement growth has made the two-state solution impossible. It gains strength when Palestinians decide that leaders like Abbas and Salam Fayyad are fools for helping Israel police the West Bank while getting only massive settlement subsidies in return.
Nothing would weaken Hamas more than growing Palestinian faith that through nonviolence and mutual recognition, they can win the basic rights they’ve been denied for almost half a century. Israel’s best long-term strategy against Palestinian violence is Palestinian hope. Unfortunately, as effective as Benjamin Netanyahu has been at destroying Palestinian rockets, he’s been even more effective at destroying that.
Jews were pities after WWII, so the Allies, in particular the U.S., pledged to forever support an independent Jewish state no matter what. Signed contracts, pledged billions of dollars, etc.
Not to mention, Jews aka Israel-supporters, are some of THE strongest/richest/most-powerful people in the World. Of 801 Nobel prize winners, 160 are Jewish. Jewish people run/own/founded companies like: CBS, ABC, NBC, Disney, New York Post, Macy's, Michael Kors, Donna Karan, The Gap, Miramax, The Wynn Las Vegas, The Sands Casino, RCA Records, Universal Music Group etc etc and the list goes on and on.
AIPAC is probably the most powerful lobby in Washington behind the NRA, but even the NRA doesn't have the 100% backing of the U.S. Congress in the way that AIPAC does.
Jews have been powerful for a long time here in the U.S. There are countless people and companies you wouldn't think were Jewish, but that are.
Also, that's your opinion. But, legally and factually -
they can elect a Terrorist organization if they wanted to and still retain civilian status.
It's not as black and white as 'throwing them out of office' -
Even if they did 'throw' them, Hamas would still be doing the same thing from the same place.
Plus. To them, Hamas is the only thing defending them at this point, so it's not that easy.
Legally, yes. In the real world no. It doesn't matter when they were elected. It's time for them to be removed if they want to stop being attacked. If Hamas weren't in charge, the Palestinians would have more international support, and Israel WOULD in fact be the bad guy. However, the fact they are STILL in power gives them power and coverage they wouldn't have as a random group. The Palestinians need to take responsibility.
Legally, yes. In the real world no. It doesn't matter when they were elected. It's time for them to be removed if they want to stop being attacked. If Hamas weren't in charge, the Palestinians would have more international support, and Israel WOULD in fact be the bad guy. However, the fact they are STILL in power gives them power and coverage they wouldn't have as a random group. The Palestinians need to take responsibility.
Would you mind explaining what Palestine needs to own up to
Legally, yes. In the real world no. It doesn't matter when they were elected. It's time for them to be removed if they want to stop being attacked. If Hamas weren't in charge, the Palestinians would have more international support, and Israel WOULD in fact be the bad guy. However, the fact they are STILL in power gives them power and coverage they wouldn't have as a random group. The Palestinians need to take responsibility.
Hamas is NOT synonymous with Palestine; and is NOT the only Palestinian authority.
Hamas governs the Gaza Strip, not Palestine.
I have explained why the Gazans can't 'simply' overthrow them, it's not really an open option.
That's such a first world answer. Like I said, it's not that easy nor that black and white..